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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
ppwe wrote:
Voice directions need to be fixed / reverted to the previous behavior asap.
Here here. It's Monday, and I'm getting ready to plug in my first stop.

WAZE has to guard against the issues of trying to please everyone, and having too many cooks spoil the broth.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
I am using the default voice (Samantha), and I rarely get anything for instructions until I'm on top of the turn. I was noticing that if it would just speak at the point it auto-zooms for the turn would be an improvement. I'm driving and I see it zoom for the next turn, and naturally I wonder why can it not start talking at this point, if it knows to zoom.... (Well I know it can, because it used to, and not so very long ago.)

I've never heard any good reason (nor can I imagine a good reason) for deciding to re-do the navigation instructions in such a way that you get insufficient information to safely use the navigator.

Now that I realize I have an iPhone 4s now instead of a 4, I will try the phone's stock MAPS Ap today for the first time ever and see how its turn by turn instructions are.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
Edward50095 wrote:
Now that I realize I have an iPhone 4s now instead of a 4, I will try the phone's stock MAPS Ap today for the first time ever and see how its turn by turn instructions are.

Well that was interesting. Maps (Google) is apparently the source of Waze's deficient turn by turn directions. They are identical.

This update that has made my job so difficult was indeed the first update since google acquired WAZE. There you go. I quit using google earth to plan my routes as google redid the appearance of google earth at about the same time as they apparently decided they knew better how to run a navigator.



There you go.... It got crammed down WAZE's throat as well as ours.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
AlanOfTheBerg wrote: without significant influence from Google for three years. Not there yet. We'll see what happens in 2016.

I guess ymmv with the meaning of "significant".

However, many news articles, like thisone refer to the deal as "a few months" old. Hardly a way to refer to 24 months. Maybe corks were popped 24 months ago, but as you say, changes will be later in coming.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
Tell me about it.

I was coming to the end of a road today, and WAZE was in the background, navigating. (Not onscreen and my hands were full).

The stop sign was 100 feet in front of me and I was desperately waiting for a "turn left" or "turn right"...

I was at a T intersection and I had the only stop sign. In this case you could turn right by going on the right side of the stop sign in a mini turn lane, no turn storage, just a fork around the stop sign for left turns and right turns.

And there was a small white vee painted that kind of split the road. The Vee's tip was probably 15 feet from the stop sign post.

I had to LITERALLY get my front tires to within 20 feet of the stop sign before it said anything. When my tires got to the paint, it said "turn left". Ridiculous.

And speaking of tee intersections (dead ends), I like the way TomTom says, "at the end of the road, turn left".


In another test today, I pretended I had no clue where the turn was and pretended there was no street sign. My last notice was one mile out. I'm driving maybe 55. When it said "turn right", my anti-lock brakes activated on dry pavement, I had to turn so fast.


But, guys, I got a feeling we're complaining to people that have no power or no real association with WAZE. But who knows maybe word will get around to "the developers" [eyeroll].
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I can't say with certainty, but it seems that the majority of users are ok with the changes,

If we can postulate, I'd say that the true majority of users has no need for a navigator at all. That most of them know exactly where they are going, and how to get there.

And if that is the case (which it is), then the majority of users will not notice the late instructions. If I know where I am going, I don't notice the extremely late instructions, because I know before WAZE tells me where the turn is.

WAZE appeals to people who would not buy a navigator, i.e., those that really have no need for one. But just like seeing themselves moving on a map in real time. It is cool. But after all the miles I've driven, no, I don't turn it on to go to Wal-Mart.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
sketch wrote:I agree with a lot of the sentiment in this thread. These kinds of things are not often noticed when you're using Waze on the commute, because you typically know the roads and are able to internalize the "in 4 miles, exit right at exit 228...". But when using Waze in unfamiliar territory, at high speeds, the final instruction does indeed come far too late to be useful. You'd better already be on the brakes if you want to make the turn in time, or already in the lane if you want to make the exit.

I am working with staff on this issue.

Waze's prompt timing is almost exactly the same as Garmin's prompt timing. Except for one thing: the final instruction. The only real issue with Waze's prompts is the final instruction. It wasn't noticed before the 3.8.0 TTS changes because before the changes the penultimate prompt was only 1/4 mi (high speed) / 500 ft (low speed) away. But now, that particular prompt is gone, so the final prompt needs to pick up its slack. It hasn't.

The Garmin's final prompt gives about 1000-1500 feet (about 1/4 mile) of advance warning at freeway speeds, which is a tad early, but otherwise fine. Waze's final prompt gives maybe 300 feet of warning in this situation.

Another problem, albeit a smaller one, with the Waze prompt scheme is its lack of flexibility. There are two modes: low speed (below 44 mph) and high speed (above 44 mph). Low speed has the second prompt at 0.2 miles, high speed at 1 mile. That's not flexible enough. 0.2 miles is fine when you're going 30 mph, but it's not quite enough at 42. 1 mile is perfect at 70 mph on the freeway, but it's too long on a country road at 55 mph, and waaaay too long when you're doing 46 and there might be a couple stop lights between you and the next turn.

Like I said, it can be hard to notice these things when you're driving on roads you know. I had to drive to Ohio to find out the deficiencies in the current prompt scheme.

But again, I'm working with staff on it. Rest assured, your concerns are with me, and I am being heard on this. It's not a quick process, so don't expect it to be fixed tomorrow, and no amount of yelling about it will change that. I know it's a big issue, and I'm doing the best I can.
Well thank you very much, Sketch, and you have the perfect ideas of what's wrong and what's right about ideal prompting.

I make a motion that the OP mark your post as an "accepted answer".

(And I also marked the June Update is the Pits thread as solved too.)
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
ppwe wrote:
Edward50095 wrote:
sketch wrote: I make a motion that the OP mark your post as an "accepted answer".

I am not sure what you refer to as OP, but as far as I am concerned, I will mark the topic resolved only when it is, not just based on promises.


I also added this to the bug page, hoping someone from Waze would track it.
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Waze_App_Bugs_and_Issues
The OP is whoever started the thread. Original Poster.

I'm with you, you're right.

It was just that sketch nailed the problems so well, and assured us he was in contact and was not being ignored.

But you're right, it's not solved till it's solved. And it is a very frustrating issue, and must be fixed.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
twestheimer wrote:I agree with the others wrt to SAFETY on the LAST turn announcement. On a highway at 60 mph/100kph there are exit lanes and the final announcement is really too late to be useful. When not driving fast it is fine. Wouldn't the easiest way is to base the timing of the final turn announcement on the vehicle speed? I realize this is easy for me to say but may not be easy to program!
Thanks
I don't think "vehicle speed" should really be a factor at all. (Except for the freeway, then that may different.) The missing prompt(s) needs to come at 1/4 mile (~1300 feet), 500 feet, and at the turn.

It is the job of the driver to mentally calculate how close (in time) that at is. I say we just sit back and see if Snatch can get this fixed. No need for the lay community to start trying to tell him HOW to fix it without having given it much thought.
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Re: Voice directions are too late SAFETY ISSUE

Post by Edward50095
And just because most people "are OK" with it in no way means it is correct.

That's very true. There is only one right way to give directions.

The quarter mile (and I wish it would say "in a quarter" instead of "in zero point 2", coincides with the point to get in the correct lane.

And another one a little closer such as 500 feet coincides with brake application/deceleration.

A final command at about 80 feet... I like it. I guess this one is useful because it is helpful in small block patterns found in places such as New Orleans. Plus, I can become accustomed to where to look when the navigator starts speaking "turn left" at 80-90ish feet. But if it "coincides" with anything it may moving your grip on the wheel to turn the car in 2 more seconds.

So yes, I think there are natural places to put the instructions, and they can only go there.
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