[New Page Proposal] Places

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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby SuperDave1426 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Coming into the discussion a little late. :-)

I'm confused, and I hope it's just that I'm misreading something. Are gas stations supposed to be point or an area? If point, why? Gas stations cover an area of physical land where cars all come and stop for a while; my understanding of the gas station landmark was that by it being there, it suppresses traffic jam notifications in the client (since cares are expected to stop there). If gas station is just a little dot on the map, what happens to traffic jam notifications?
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby SuperDave1426 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:04 pm

I don't know... I kinda like it when I'm driving and when I look at my client, I see a "blob" labeled "{some brand of gas station}" - it lets me know it's there in case I was thinking of getting gas but hadn't specifically navigated to it.
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby SuperDave1426 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:07 pm

One thing I've noticed about the new Places that I don't like is that Points don't show up when zoomed out to a certain amount, unlike Areas, which will, just like their Landmarks counterparts, show up no matter how far you've zoomed out. I can see where you probably don't want Points to be visible all the way out, but is there any way they could change it so that they show up a notch or two further out than where they disappear now? When I'm scanning an area looking for things, it's a lot less effective for me to have to zoom in "too far" and then scan around.

If this isn't something they can/will change, I guess I'll have to learn to live with it. :-) But I figured there was no harm in asking....
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:58 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I disagree on this. Just like the guidance of many other places in the wiki, such as road types to use, how to map parking lots, etc., I think this page is really quite good as a starting point to getting POI data flooding into the Waze databases without overwhelming the app map with garbage. <- With the caveat that we don't even know how Points will look in the app. It may be a disaster. :)


So far, I've driven past places where Points were set and saw absolutely NOTHING in the app map at all, where Areas are showing up just fine.

FWIW....
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:08 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Because the tiles haven't updated since Mar 22. Although, even if the tiles did update, maybe still nothing would display. We don't know.

Ah, that would explain it, then. I guess once the tiles update again, I'll have to drive past those places and see what (if anything) they look like. Thanks.
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby tecwzrdmf » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:36 pm

I can add point and area places but can't save address info for either. e.g. 3 department stores. Is this being worked on?
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby vectorspace » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:38 pm

Wow Alan, great work. Perhaps this explains where you've been spending your time! I am glad to see Waze coming to a flexible point/area solution on this.

Related to this: I've noticed some URs recently in my area regarding a tourist destination, the Petroglyph National Monument (assume it is a Park type landmark). We have a big area for this and some people have searched for it and selected what must have come from a landmark. Waze routed them through a neighborhood to the closest nearest boundary to the Monument lands. Unfortunately they would have had to hike across someone's private yard to get to a place they didn't really want to go! Having multiple point destinations will help so we can add "- visitor center" to the name. To this point, I have been carving out parts of such huge landmarks and naming them with such detail so they would be more valuable as a destination.

Specific to your post on this: If we have a large Park area that is a tourist destination, and within it are various campgrounds, visitor centers, trail heads, etc., how are we going to mark the fine detail and have people route to that fine detail rather than only a big blob of a park? I didn't see a lot of detail described in the "Outdoor" category on your Wiki page.
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby vectorspace » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:34 pm

Andy & Alan -- Thanks. That makes sense.

Some additional thought detail on this:

For the Petroglyph National Monument, it is now mapped in chunks. Some major roads go through parts of this, so there are nearby chunks all named the same. This prevents the landmark from overlapping the roads, but could cause problems in this newest approach. This National Monument is essentially within a city, on the west side of it at least, but he city is growing around it.

If that chunks-based approach is used, then each of the chunks will have a primary point location to define, which would be meaningless for some of the chunks because they were created simply to prevent overlap with roads. In such cases, guidance would be needed on how to map a singular landmark (area) versus multiple areas and how that is balanced with having the areas go across roads.
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby vectorspace » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:24 am

Do we have any guidance from Waze staff on this point? Perhaps we can gain more insight at the meetup?

I always liked to include AREA landmarks that are really navigation landmarks, no matter what they are, because people often say things like "It's the second left after the XXX" or "if you reach the XXX, then you've gone too far." In addition, when I route to places, I often scroll around on the client display, touch the screen at the landmark I want to go to (for instance the local aquatic pool) then command Waze to get me there. That is often more intuitive to me than a POI search, so I want to see the landmark.

At the same time, I can see land-marking everything as a major pain in logistics upkeep. If you landmark every business, one has to go in and update it when some of them are no longer in business or have moved!
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Re: [New Page Proposal] Places

Postby vectorspace » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:33 am

Thanks again Alan for the work on the Wiki page.

After reviewing it, I have some concern that we're debating point/area when we really don't have principles behind what we are trying to accomplish with those designation. I do see some discussion around it. If we're going to have consistent application, some principles around point/area would be nice. Qwaletee's post seemed to try to get toward principles.

I also worry that I don't know what this looks like on the client enough to have a valid opinion. Seems some of you do. We are experimenting in NM to have something on the map to drive by with points to see what appears.

I generally think that there is too much absolute "either/or" in the table on the Wiki. Some things might be point or area depending on a principle, if we ever get to that state of decision on Places.

I have mentioned before that things which are navigation landmarks need to be seen. I don't care exactly what they are because it may depend on the local usage (a strength of the Waze Community). Creating too absolute of rules can be stifling and quash innovative ideas. Yup--to much free form can lead to chaos. At this point I cannot tell if a Point can be seen. I will know in a couple days once we check some tests here. I have a feeling like I would like to see navigation landmarks as Areas, but will see...
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