Roundabout bypass

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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby iainhouse » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:53 pm

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have a solution to this problem that seems to work. It's been in place for several months now and has been continuously monitored by our resident genuis Timbones. All four of the bypass lanes being monitored are working 99%-100%. They're being checked every 5 minutes (288 times/day, 2000 times/week) and experiencing less than one failure to use the bypass per day.

I was reminded to go & check the monitoring after I dealt with a UR for another roundabout. I used the new solution and it started working as soon as we had an update. You can see my solution here.

bypass-lane-hack.jpg
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(13.21 KiB) Downloaded 911 times

What I'm doing here is abusing the Waze U-turn prevention mechanism! :shock:

Roundabout segments should always be un-named. Waze avoids U-turns by avoiding making 2 90° turns via an un-named segment. So the fix to stop Waze using the first exit is to make sure the roundabout segment is less than 15m long and that the 2 segments joining the roundabout do so as close to 90­° as possible.

In the example above, I have left the joins sticking out a bit so it's clear to see what I've done, but this is invisible in the client. In the other roundabouts we've altered, the doglegs are much shorter. You can see them here:

Please note, however, that this hack is only suitable for roundabouts where the entrance/exit you wish to restrict are relatively close to each other. If they are well-separated, you'll have to move the junctions closer together to make the connecting roundabout segment <15m, and that will affect the timing of TTS instructions.
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby iainhouse » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:43 pm

taco909 wrote:Also, 90 degrees is not specifically required, only that the sum of the entry and exit angles be within 10 degrees of 180. Personally, I try to keep it to within 3 or 4.
So a 60 and a 120 would also prevent the u-turn, and we no longer need to dogleg segments that meet at an angle unless it is needed to produce a "turn" rather than "stay" instruction.


Sorry Rich - I must have missed your comment! You're right about not needing the doglegs. However there is a good secondary reason for using them. Whilst small enough to be invisible in the app, it's actually a good thing if they're visible in the editor. It makes it somewhat more obvious to other editors that somebody has deliberately edited the junction into it's current configuration. Even if they don't know about this trick, they're less likely (I hope) to make changes.
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby petervdveen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:36 am

^^ That's correct.
We've done some tests in the past and you will get a 'at the roundabout' [silent] ;-)
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby petervdveen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:58 pm

It's funny to see waze using the parallel-lane that has about 50 extra junctions... ;-)
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby rolaros » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 pm

Just a thought, what about switching the two nodes? I mean connecting the ramp segment to the node where is currently connected the primary street and the primary to the other one, making the 2 segments cross adapting the elevation. Could that possibly be a solution?
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby taco909 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:02 pm

iainhouse wrote:What I'm doing here is abusing the Waze U-turn prevention mechanism! :shock:

Roundabout segments should always be un-named. Waze avoids U-turns by avoiding making 2 90° turns via an un-named segment.

The naming of the segment is irrelevant now.
Also, 90 degrees is not specifically required, only that the sum of the entry and exit angles be within 10 degrees of 180. Personally, I try to keep it to within 3 or 4.
So a 60 and a 120 would also prevent the u-turn, and we no longer need to dogleg segments that meet at an angle unless it is needed to produce a "turn" rather than "stay" instruction.

It is a shame that we don't have a way of tweaking the routing preference SLIGHTLY to favor the bypass over the roundabout without running the risk of the routing server doing something crazy and routing someone to the 2nd feeder segment to take advantage of the bypass.
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby Timbones » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:37 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:That's great analysis and information. I find it odd that it only fails to produce correct instructions for when you come into the roundabout from (1) but it does work for the others. That's not what I would expect. If it's not seen as a proper exit, why only for the 1st and not for the others?

This is as I'd expect. When you arrive at the roundabout from (1), the immediate exit is counted as a right turn not as a roundabout exit. In fact, if you were to turn right at that node, you wouldn't actually enter the roundabout. Coming from any other direction, Waze is counting the exits from the roundabout, regardless as to whether they share a node with an entrance or not.

I'm not saying this is correct behaviour, but it is what I would expect it to do.

Generally, I would suggest it's not worth mapping a roundabout bypass unless it's large enough to have trees or grass in-between. For small bypasses, 'turn right' or 'take 1st exit' is usually enough information for the driver to follow the signs and take the bypass.
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby Timbones » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:52 pm

For roundabout bypasses, I try to name the approaches such that there is either a keep right* OR a roundabout instruction (*assuming right-hand side). This ensures that the driver will never get 'keep left; 1st exit' when Waze misses the bypass. Instead they'll just hear 'first exit' and proceed naturally as is the bypass didn't exist.

YMMV. Some junctions may need more detailed instructions for drivers who can't see out the windscreen...
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby WildCard_25 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:57 am

Just to add to the confusion :-)

There are some larger roundabouts over here that have a bypass and it's actually illegal to take the first exit (you have to use the bypass or go all the way around the roundabout before exiting). So having the entrance and exit on the same junction allows the illegal turn to get restricted, and the prompt to take the first exit is correct as drivers don't consider the illegal one to be an exit. :-D
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Re: Roundabout bypass

Postby WildCard_25 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:46 am

Nice solution crossing the entrance and exit, although having them on the same junction seems to work as well, unless the ramp is slow enough to overide the penalty for the restricted turn, or Waze changes the roundabout routing again or...

I think I prefer the crossed entrance and exit :-D

One of the roundabout I was talking about is in this thread. It's other problem was that it was directing drivers to turn left at the roundabout when going straight through from West to East.
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