[NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby pumrum » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:14 am

I know it has been discussed with WazeHQ, and perhaps they have even made a final determination in the secret forums -- but can we get the alternate naming on ramps issue logged as an official bug on the bug sheet? I think most of us agree that to have a properly configured ramp which branches from a freeway/highway not give an exit instruction is bad. at least this way they can see that it really is causing us issues (I get reports on this every day which I have to go out and fix) and maybe even consider coding a simple exception to their algorithm for ramps. :?
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby pumrum » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:35 am

PesachZ wrote:They may not actually have anticipated the results to our wayfinder system.


I wouldn't care half as much if it was just wayfinders, but this is affecting properly configured exits too. Instances where you have a continuous freeway with one ramp segment that branches out to the right, and because the alternate names match on the input freeway and the output ramp, you don't get an "Exit Right" instruction. This happens every time a US or State highway splits from an interstate, for example. This is the most obvious situation I run into in CT, but I have to imagine there are tons of others (wayfinders included) that will continue to haunt us all over the developed map. Ramps are intended to be a protected class of segment. If they weren't, we'd just make all offramps freeways (yes, i know they make the client zoom in and hide the text, but those are just interface features, and it was really nice to have the functional features too).

Can't blame you for being the messenger :) - very much appreciate the input. i still do think we should add it to the official bug sheet. I would add it, but I haven't been able to request modify access to the sheet
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby qwaletee » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:29 am

Shaq,

The left hand ramp has no alt names, the right hand stub ramp and s-in have many alts (see below). These matching alts are what's causing the problem. I don't see any reason why a stub ramp in a wayfinder ever needs to have alt names, the only purpose of the stub ramp is to temporarily change name, so I'm going ahead and removing the stub ramp's alt names.

Note that this WF doesn't follow current guidance. It is a left exit, for which the standard is to use an unnamed highway stub at the start of the left exit, and a "changed name" highway stub after the fork for the right continuation. This works better visually (no breaks in the highway) and possibly for routing. Nevertheless, while not standards compliant, this WF should work with the alts removed. If you convert it per standard, just make sure the left stub also has no alts.

Right hand ramp:
US-9, No city
Tonnelle Ave, North Bergen
US-1 N, North Bergen
US-9 N, North Bergen
US-1, No city
US-1 N / US-9 N, No city
Tonnelle Ave, No city

S-in:
Tonnelle Ave, No city
US-1 N / US-9 N, No city
US-9, No city
US-1 N, North Bergen
US-9 N, North Bergen
US-1, No city

The above is the list of alts. As you can see, someone went a little crazy with them. We don't need both named and unnamed, and we don't need both the individual route numbers (US-1 N, US-9 N) and the combo (US-1 N / US-9 N). There's also no need for the No City versions unless it contributes to detour avoidance, in which case there's probably some other way to name match that would work anyway. This problem of overboarding on the alts seems common on the 1/9, though some of it is legit.
Last edited by qwaletee on Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby qwaletee » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:19 am

Thanks PZ, any ETA on more info?
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby Shaq23 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:08 am

Just came across a UR in Maryland, where the driver did not get an an instruction to keep right for the I-95 N. Livemap did not give an instruction as well. Looking at the S-In and S-out, they both have a matching alt name of "I-95 N".

Side-note: This Wayfinder seems like it should be set as a Right FWY Split, and the stubs should be Ramp type.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby Shaq23 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:43 am

Here is another Broken WF, the right stub towards US-1 N / US-9 N, has matching alt naming to the S-in.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby Shaq23 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:36 am

chewdaniel wrote:@shaq23 @pesachz

guys, thanks for your time yesterday. however, a recent finding by a fellow editor L5 @Krixera has ruled out the elevation theory...

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lo ... =104405543

This broken WF has to do with one S-out having a matching alt name to the S-in.

However, the one you posted originally, does NOT have an alt name matching the S-in, which is the root of this new routing issue. We will be running thorough testing (as discussed), to try and see what has triggered this WF to stop working correctly. Keep in mind that we are running on different routing servers (NA,ROW), which may have different affects.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby Shaq23 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:54 am

qwaletee wrote:Shaq,

The left hand ramp has no alt names, the right hand stub ramp and s-in have many alts (see below). These matching alts are what's causing the problem. I don't see any reason why a stub ramp in a wayfinder ever needs to have alt names, the only purpose of the stub ramp is to temporarily change name, so I'm going ahead and removing the stub ramp's alt names.

Note that this WF doesn't follow current guidance. It is a left exit, for which the standard is to use an unnamed highway stub at the start of the left exit, and a "changed name" highway stub after the fork for the right continuation. This works better visually (no breaks in the highway) and possibly for routing. Nevertheless, while not standards compliant, this WF should work with the alts removed. If you convert it per standard, just make sure the left stub also has no alts.

Right hand ramp:
US-9, No city
Tonnelle Ave, North Bergen
US-1 N, North Bergen
US-9 N, North Bergen
US-1, No city
US-1 N / US-9 N, No city
Tonnelle Ave, No city

S-in:
Tonnelle Ave, No city
US-1 N / US-9 N, No city
US-9, No city
US-1 N, North Bergen
US-9 N, North Bergen
US-1, No city

The above is the list of alts. As you can see, someone went a little crazy with them. We don't need both named and unnamed, and we don't need both the individual route numbers (US-1 N, US-9 N) and the combo (US-1 N / US-9 N). There's also no need for the No City versions unless it contributes to detour avoidance, in which case there's probably some other way to name match that would work anyway. This problem of overboarding on the alts seems common on the 1/9, though some of it is legit.

Yes, The alt name match on the right stub is what caused the "no instruction" issue. However, I Posted it in this thread, so the ones testing the extent of the new change, can learn from it. Regarding the set up of the Wayfinder, Your right, this should be set as a Left Exit.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby sketch » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:40 pm

Fredo-p wrote:If the algorithm has been changed, instead of doing all of this investigative work just to confirm it, couldn't a Global Champ contact the devs to confirm if the change has been made and find out what the changes were?

Is the communication between the Devs and the GC "liaisons" always that "in the dark"? I know asking to include change logs is not going to happen anytime soon, but it would be nice if the devs would at least pick one GC to notify them of what changes have been made in a certain code and what the changes are so they could advise us of what to expect.

You would think.

You would hope.
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Re: [NEW] Best Continuation algorithm has been changed

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:50 pm

I'll start with the last one: No. It's a 55° angle so it'll say "turn right".

More generally: We need to come together collectively and stop worrying about the difference between "stay" vs. "exit" in situations where you are indeed exiting a road, even if it doesn't look like a freeway exit. A user hearing "exit right" will know what to do.

It's only a real problem when the user stays to the right to stay on the same road.
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