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Post by PesachZ
voludu2 wrote:I have one more suggestion.
The string for URs "incorrect driving direction" is understood as "incorrect navigational instructions" by most English speakers. But this is incorrect -- in nearly every other language, the message is really something closer to "wrong way on a one-way street".

Can this be changed in the app and in WME in all versions of English?
This understanding of incorrect navigation instructions is actually correct if you compare it to the Hebrew version. I assume the Hebrew reflects the developers true intent. The Hebrew string "הוראות נסיעה לא נכונות"translates to "Driving directions incorrect". Directions meaning instructions when using this term.

A more literal translation of the original would be; instructions for the trip were not good.
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Post by PesachZ
I want to thank Alan for spearheading this initiative and all the hard work out in by the translation team to make this happen. Thank you!!!
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Post by PesachZ
AndyPoms wrote:I'm going to open up a can of worms here... Alan, feel free to split this off into a separate topic if needed.

Can we change the translation of "Police" to "Speed Trap"? It would more accurately describe the intended function of that report...
Aside for the can of worms, that is a client string, this topic is only for WME AFAIK.
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Post by PesachZ
jondrush wrote:
Solution 2005
Old: Consider changing its structure
New: Make the segment at least 5 m (16 ft) long
Because of rounding, should we show 5.1 and 16.1?
WME does not natively display 5.1, so we shouldn't natively show it in an error message. The error won't be triggered for a segment of 4.8m since WME will round it to 5m and it will pass the test. I don't think we should concern ourselves with rounding here.
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Post by PesachZ
jondrush wrote:Dare we touch the Dirt Road / 4x4 trail and make it just 4x4 offroad trail?
Any changes to the driveable road types names will have to coincide with changes to the accepted national guidelines on those types should be applied.
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Post by PesachZ
Odinsworn wrote:
PesachZ wrote:
jondrush wrote:Dare we touch the Dirt Road / 4x4 trail and make it just 4x4 offroad trail?
Any changes to the driveable road types names will have to coincide with changes to the accepted national guidelines on those types should be applied.
What are the acceptable national guidelines? I think having more levels of rural road would be very helpful for tourists, at the risk of sounding like hyperbole, save lives. In my area of Michigan we have gravel roads which are regularly maintained year round, dirt roads which receive some maintenance in the summer, but are snowmobile trails come winter, and then dirt roads which are some time passable in a passenger car, depending on storm activity, and then there are 4x4 trails. I know that many places out west have seasonal roads as well. I am interested in who determines the national standards, and how they can be lobbied for more varied distinctions.
The US Champ community sets the guidelines with input from the US community of editors, and knowledge from staff about how those decisions will effect the routing.

We are talking about about possibly renaming some of the existing road types so their usage is more intuitive. We do not have the ability to add more new road types to the list. Only staff can add a new road type, or change the way an existing road type behaves in routing. From past experience I don't think they will be adding any new types anytime soon.
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Post by PesachZ
DwarfLord wrote:Instead of Fire Station/EMS, how about Fire Station/Ambulance?

Using "Ambulance" instead of "EMS" helps in two ways.

First, "Ambulance" isn't an acronym and so is a more approachable term. If we used EMS it would be the only other acronym in the list besides ATM. Of course it is possible that a driver will search for EMS and not ambulance, but honestly I can't believe a driver in an urgent situation is going to search for either one. The whole idea of ambulances is that they come to you.

Second, "Ambulance" makes it abundantly clear that the category should mark the location of the vehicle, not an EMS office where the EMTs watch TV and sleep between calls. All the life-saving gear is in the vehicle, not in the office; even if you did drive to an EMS office and there was someone there, he would take you to the vehicle. I think editors will intuitively understand that a location where the vehicle simply "perches" for a few minutes or a few hours here or there should not be marked as "Fire Station/Ambulance"; using the more intuitive term means we don't have to worry so much about modifying the Places guidance.

It seems to me that "Fire Station/Ambulance" still satisfies the original desire, to expand "Fire Station" into a more general sense of "first responder".

I hope this alternative sounds OK!
I'm envisioning many places for known ambulance parking spots etc. I don't see what place would properly qualify for ambulance.

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Post by PesachZ
DwarfLord wrote:
PesachZ wrote:I'm envisioning many places for known ambulance parking spots etc. I don't see what place would properly qualify for ambulance.
A subset of the Places that would qualify for EMS!

According to the Wikipedia article on Emergency Medical Services, the term EMS by definition means mobile care; first responders who take portable equipment to the site of the health emergency and then transport the ill and injured to hospitals.

So it surprised me that there is support in the community for mapping EMS as static Places when they are by definition mobile. But in the face of strong resistance I am giving up arguing against this. Instead I was offering a more intuitive and accurate name for just what it is we are mapping.

I guarantee you that every EMS location is going to have a parking spot for an ambulance. Mapping "EMS" effectively means mapping those parking spots whether there's an ambulance there or not.

If we map "Ambulance" it intuitively means a place where ambulances spend the majority of their time. That will be a small subset of what we'd get if we map "EMS".

Alternately, we can revisit whether it makes sense to map mobile facilities.
My concern was having random street corners gettingnmap because a wazers drove by and saw an ambulance parked there on standby, or they know an ambulance usually parks there between calls.

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Post by PesachZ
DwarfLord wrote:
PesachZ wrote:My concern was having random street corners gettingnmap because a wazers drove by and saw an ambulance parked there on standby, or they know an ambulance usually parks there between calls.
That's a valid concern. Hopefully the presence of "Ambulance" as part of the compound category "Fire Station/Ambulance" would mitigate that, at least for conscientious contributors.

To the extent that it doesn't mitigate that, the problem could be even more acute with "Fire Station/EMS" because an EMS office can be correct even if an ambulance is almost never located there. But, when the ambulance isn't located there, there's unlikely to be personnel or equipment at the EMS office to make it worth mapping or routing to. It's just an empty office with a water cooler, a TV, and a sofa chair or two.
The argument can go both ways. In NYC FDNY*EMS are staffed 24/7 at a minimum by a supervisor who is a certified EMT or Paramedic, and they always have equipment there even if there are no ambulances present. Now I know this doesn't extrapolate everywhere, just a different perspective. We might never be able to achieve optimal results relying on just the name. Guidance in the wiki will be important too.

In the NYC case, as they are a division of the fire department, they could fall back to that category regardless. But the idea is to allow it when appropriate, and not encourage it when inappropriate.

Sidebar would there be any concern to mapping an EMS station which is only staffed on down time as a point? Are we only concerned about category abuse as an area? If so let's keep in mind that users adding places from the app, (those least likely to read the wiki ) can only add points, not areas.

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Post by voludu2
I have one more suggestion.
Where we now have "wrong driving direction" in the app and in WME, I suggest "Wrong instruction" or "wrong navigational instruction".

Here's why:
This string was originally written in Hebrew הוראות נסיעה לא נכונות, which I am told means "incorrect driving instruction". The translation into English is good for English speakers, but confusing for non-native speakers.

All the other translations were done from the English "base" version. And therefore has been translated as something closer to "incorrect direction of travel" in some languages, such as French and German

For this reason, I'd like to see the English translation of this string changed so that it is unambiguous, and nobody confuses "instruction" for "direction in which to drive".

Earlier, I was mistaken about the original intent of the devs, and wrote the following nonsense:
The string for URs "incorrect driving direction" is understood as "incorrect navigational instructions" by most English speakers. But this is incorrect -- in nearly every other language, the message is really something closer to "wrong way on a one-way street".

Can this be changed in the app and in WME in all versions of English?
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Last edited by voludu2 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.