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[Page updates] Roundabouts and junction box

Post by Kartografer
Junction boxes can be added to roundabouts now. Therefore I propose some small changes.

In the errors section of the junction box page let's remove the "No roundabouts" line, as it's no longer true. Also in the when to use section under "Appropriate times to use a junction box" I would like to add a line:
  • To correct routing issues or improper turn instructions in roundabouts

I also would substitute every mention of TIOs and turn instruction overrides with the new term, voice prompt.

When this feature was being tested in beta, Gil asked us to remove all the weird things we've done to hack routing in roundabouts, because they are not needed now. With that in mind, I would like to remove the hack sections under bypass and replace it with guidance to remove the hacks with junction boxes and information about how to use JBs with roundabouts, including how to force bypass routing and use JB voice prompts. Also, I propose changing the page title to Roundabout rather than Roundabouts, in keeping with WP style. I can fix any double redirects, although many links already point to Roundabout anyway.

Draft roundabout page
Diff (love the new visual presentation)
 
 
 
 
 
Kartografer
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Post by Kartografer
ojlaw wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:02 pm this is a good start. 2 things jump out right now-

1. i think using the word nodes instead of segments would be better because you have to include segments outside the roundabout

" If the junction box completely contains only roundabout segments (not approaching segments), these voice prompts will produce the proper roundabout spoken and visual instructions, such as "at the roundabout, turn right" and "at the roundabout, take the fourth exit". Normal and non-normal instructions can be used in the same roundabout. If extra segments are included in the junction box outside the roundabout, the navigation instructions will not work as expected, "

2. do not remove this section that has strikethrough. this is a common error and i reference this section of the wiki frequently.
"What not to do
Do not junction the incoming and outgoing segment at the same node in order to prevent the redundant turn. Multiple segments at one node causes incorrect exit numbering, and, in some cases the distortion can cause incorrect normal instructions, (for example - "at the roundabout, turn right" to users continuing straight, if they travel through only 90° of the roundabout from entry to exit).

Do not move the incoming segment after the outgoing segment to make Waze avoid the exit. This is also a distortion if the roundabout and can cause incorrect roundabout instructions,"
 


 
Sounds good. New diff with your suggestions
 
 
Kartografer
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Post by Kartografer
subs5 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:59 pm For the pictures on the "Creation from an intersection" section, I think having a roundabout without the median separation for the in and out that meets Falcon dividing criteria would be better.  

 

 
There is a lot of dated information in that section, from the images of two different roundabouts to the old WME versions to the thing about never naming roundabout segments (proven to be false and unnecessary). The whole section needs a rewrite with new images honestly. My proposal doesn't involve it
 
Kartografer
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Post by Kartografer
OK, I updated my draft with revisions to the section mentioned by Alan and some other stuff about entries and exits, giving more leeway to divide entries and exits at roundabouts with the Falcon changes. I changed the guidance about how we never name roundabout segments to say that if a roundabout is named on signs, just give it a name basically. This is common practice for many years in certain areas, and there are no problems with it.
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Post by Kartografer
Thanks very much. I have incorporated your suggestions, with slight modification to the second one. I can get too wordy easily.

There's actually a lot of redundancy and white space on this page. Some of it is my fault, like those examples I added as one of my first wiki edits five years ago!
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Post by Kartografer
ojlaw wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:09 pm this looks good. could you maybe update the diff now?

also one more thing on the page that i think could use some work in this section
this statement could use some clarification because Waze will mix normal and non normal instructions at the same RA. but this statement has caused some confusion in the past because it of the "entire roundabout" but i think it's just the exits from the entry path in the example. 
The entire roundabout must be normal to generate "turn left", "turn right" or "continue straight" instructions.
thanks again.
 

 
OK, I clarified that part and reformatted a few images to remove whitespace in the examples. Here is the current diff.
 
Kartografer
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Post by Kartografer
Yeah I agree with adding language about traffic calming circles. One interesting example is here. where due to the presence of signs I would think the roundabout left turn instructions make more sense, whereas having a bunch of continue instructions in a row is still annoying. We can always JB them to give no instruction on the continue.
Kartografer
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Post by Kartografer
That works. I would also like to add a little section about scheduled reconfigurations with roundabouts, since the way roundabouts are physically constructed and mapped in WME is a little different from other roads.
Kartografer
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Kartografer
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