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At the crossroads, continue - please upvote!

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Is anyone else bored of having conversations with users about the lack of instruction at rural crossroads? I know this subject has caused a fair bit of debate and has divided opinion but surely with the amount of URs this generates, something should be done about it? I get at least 2 a week and only look after a small portion of the country. 

I created a suggestion in the Waze Uservoice. If you agree, an upvote would help: link

If you're new to this, this is one of the many threads discussing it.

Today's example.

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Post by Craig24x7
I'm happy to share my thoughts and an idea as someone who clocks up around 300-400 miles per week on rural roads.

I've encountered many obscure junctions, sneaky crossroads, weird triangle junctions, etc. The worst ones for me (before I learned where they all are) are the ones that creep up on you around bends and at the bottom of hills. I pay attention to upcoming roads on Waze to get an idea of what to expect, but I'm aware not everyone does and some perhaps just rely on glances and voice prompts.

Although I have many in my bank of knowledge at this point, this one in particular stands out to me. If you Streetview it from the corner of the brown field adjacent to the road, and then 'drive' north-east, all you see is a continuous sweeping bend. Speed limit is 60mph as normal. Should you miss the tiny white sign before the side road (that gets swallowed by bushes in the summer), your next warning isn't until the give way sign at the junction itself. And missing that give way sign could lull you into thinking the road is still sweeping off to the right due to the angle of approach:
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You also have this one - a give way with very little warning at the bottom of a 10% gradient snaking hill. I've seen countless people overshoot this junction (skid marks are even shown on Streetview), with some narrowly escaping the ditch on the other side, or even cars approaching from the left as they're also coming downhill towards you:
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I think something to go alongside the difficult turn option could be good. It would be non-intrusive in WME (versus area places/points), and editors with local knowledge (perhaps L3+ to prevent abuse) could control its display. This way it could be set on the turns that don't have priority as technically they're the ones that are more inclined to need the warning. I'm not sure what you'd call it though, but something like "Cautious approach required" or similar. I don't know, I'm not good at names. Either way it could pop up a warning or turn the instruction box red, with optional audio bell/ding.

Ultimately it's my responsibility to ensure I drive according to the road and 'expect the unexpected', and I'm not going to hold a sat-nav to account if I mess up. I'm in control of the car after all. But something that can forewarn the driver is always a good thing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post by ditchi56
A personal opinion (not speaking as CM):

- in deciding whether to give an instruction or not, editors should consider what is visible on wet night with heavy traffic. Signs, and even more road paint, that are obvious in Google Streetview may not always be so east to spot. And many rural signs disappear into a hedge in summer.

- I tend to think "where should I go now" whenever I am forced to stop. On the other hand, I don't welcome constant chatter from the SatNav (or my passenger, but that's another issue ;)). So I'm inclined to go with a "continue/go straight" at rural give-ways, but not at urban ones.
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Post by ditchi56
Twister-UK wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:56 pm Also my personal opinion. I can never support such an idea until such time as the app can give a "give way/stop ahead" instruction, as to give any instruction which might be misinterpreted as indicating that the user has priority over the road they're about to cross isn't something I can accept us deliberately doing.
 

 
This thought may have been behind the decision to translate "continue" (as it appears in the map editor) into "go straight" (as it is spoken by the app). 
I don't see that "go straight" implies a priority any more than "turn left" or "turn right" does. And Waze frequently says "go straight" on the approach to a mini-roundabout (and we can't stop it giving an instruction at roundabouts) so any Wazer misinterpreting "go straight" in this way is going to have a crash sooner rather than later whatever we do at crossroads.
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Post by ditchi56
For what it's worth, here is my stock response to UR's at rural give-ways:
Hi, volunteer map editor here.

I'm guessing you are reporting the lack of instruction where you have to give way and go straight on?

Until recently, Waze had no facility to say "go straight on"; if it wasn't a left turn or a right turn there was no instruction it could give. Most people think this is fine; Waze is a navigation device, not a substitute for the driver looking out for give way signs and other hazards.

We do now have a "go straight" instruction, and I personally am happy to apply it where drivers have to give way (although not at traffic lights). I have just added it to this junction (it will take a couple of days to take effect).

Feel free to go on reporting such junctions, but be warned you may get a different response if another editor picks up your report.

I hope you continue to enjoy using Waze :)
 
 
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Post by gareth71
The French are right about a lot of things. In light of the above, I think this is perhaps one of them.  ;)
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Post by Ian
Hi All.
An update on the situation regarding instructions at crossroads.

Following the start of this discussion, the Champs took this off line and have had an extended and occasionally heated discussion about the issue. As I am sure you are aware, there are 2 very polarised opinions about this issue.

After considerable thought and discussion, there was a vote and the result was a majority in favour of not having TOI at any crossroads.

The main reasoning behind this was that currently there is no appropriate instruction available. Adding a "Continue" or "Straight on" instruction at a crossroads where you actually need to either stop or at least give way is inappropriate. While it does give a warning that there is a crossroads there, the instruction could easily be misunderstood to mean you can proceed without stopping. There were other issues and concerns raised, but this (for me) was the deciding one.

While the decision by the Champs included that the current instructions at crossroads should be removed, we have decided that as this situation has been in place for several years, there is no urgency to do this. With immediate effect, the ruling is that all existing TOI at crossroad can be left in place, but no new ones should be added. The UK Wazeopedia will shortly be updated to reflect this decision.



Having said all that, during our time considering this it became obvious that we do need something which can be used it identify a "hidden" or otherwise not obvious, junction or hazard of any type. We will be continuing the discussion to find a solution to this issue and then work out how it can be implemented. As there is currently no solution we can see using the existing options in the WME, any solution will need some work from the Waze Development team and so it will not happen quickly. 

Please be patient and hopefully we will work out and be able to implement a satisfactory solution to this sometime "soon".

If any of you have any suggestions - and we are looking at any ideas, no matter how obscure - please post them. What we need to do is work out what we would like as an ideal solution for the driver in the app, and then work backwards to see how / if we can achieve this.

Because of this, I am particularly interested in hearing from those of you who drive a lot. What would you want to be told when approaching a hidden hazard? (crossroads, T junction, sharp bend, hidden side road, etc - and I am sure there are lots I have not thought of yet) Do not worry about how to implement it, just explain the result you would want in the app. Once we have that clear, we can then go on to try and work out how best to achieve it.
 
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Post by iangpowell
But on the flip side, and this is just me playing devil's advocate, you could argue that all motorists should be travelling at an appropriate speed and be able to stop in the distance they can see is safe, being able to react and respond to signage or road markings that suggests a junction priority is against them.

Don't get me wrong, I too get equally as frustrated by the constant URs related to rural crossroads, however it should surely also be considered that the more we ask Waze to be vocal and get involved, the more we are potentially distracting the road user from the act of being in control of their vehicle and being responsible for their actions on the road rather than being reliant on technology to carry out the driving for them.
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Post by iangpowell
JamesKingdom wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:04 pm
iangpowell wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:51 pm But on the flip side, and this is just me playing devil's advocate, you could argue that all motorists should be travelling at an appropriate speed and be able to stop in the distance they can see is safe, being able to react and respond to signage or road markings that suggests a junction priority is against them.

Don't get me wrong, I too get equally as frustrated by the constant URs related to rural crossroads, however it should surely also be considered that the more we ask Waze to be vocal and get involved, the more we are potentially distracting the road user from the act of being in control of their vehicle and being responsible for their actions on the road rather than being reliant on technology to carry out the driving for them.



 
But then at the same time shouldn't drivers be able to navigate with road signs and not rely on GPS to get to their destination? Bit of an extreme example but yeah there are infinite arguments here I feel like  :(
 
 
 


 
 Touche!!  :lol:
 
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Last edited by iangpowell on Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by iangpowell
titchy_ wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:48 am Sooner or later this will end up with an accident Waze will get blamed for.


 
And if Waze told these users to drive off a cliff, would they follow like robots and do it? I totally see both sides of the argument, but any car driver still has to remain 100% in control of their vehicle and be totally responsible for any decisions they do or do not take, rather than being dictated to by a mobile phone app that is simply there to give them general guidance to a specified destination.


A BMW driver followed his Sat Nav straight into river - is this the sat navs fault, or the drivers fault for not using their common sense?
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Post by JamesKingdom
PropertyGeek wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:45 pm Personally I feel it should be a voice command as I think Waze does have a duty also to warn of issues which might be a hazard.

After all Waze will inform you of many things, it does seem odd that potential dangers are ignored such as junctions which can be hidden until you are almost on top of them.

But not everyone agrees.

 
This is the stance I take! The more information we can give the driver the better, every little helps  :D
 
 
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