Hi Sebastijan73,
I appreciate a lot your answer so we can set together a Road Type Definition for Croatia: that's why I started from a certain point of view.

As you noticed , in the last Wiki update, the roads definitions has been modified possibly " without limitations" in order to let every country to adapt Waze Road type to local situation.

Let me start from your last question, to explain why it's really important to choose the correct Road Type

It is important to edit in such a way because the type of roads has effect on the routing time calculation.

On the other side I read in the international Waze-Forum- It is said that Waze uses the average measured (GPS) speed for the calculation of routes. So I don't understand your argument.

In reality Waze calculates the speed of each segment in such way :
50% of speed limit settled by default on every road type +
50% or the REAL sped measured by Waze on such a segment ( as you said " uses the average measured (GPS) speed ")

So if you say in town you have a speed limit of 50 Km/h and you edit a road as Major road (see Zagreb) when you set a destination the system will calculate :
50% of Waze default speed limit (110Km/h) = 55 Km/h
50% of REAL speed limit recorded by waze (let say 50 km/h) = 25 km/h
That means each segment of your MAJOR road is considered at 75 km/h....what is wrong because you have a limit in town of 50 km/h .............and that's why in Town we normally edit the most important roads in a town as primary (to make the map more easy to be understood - mainly using map Editor skin)

Major roads - roads with 3 carriage lanes per driving directions; speed limit 110 km/h ; no
Traffic lights; no connection to any side road

They (nearly) don't exist in Croatia

Ok so you decide the few road could be edited as MAJOR ROAD

You gave such a road definition

Freeway: Autput (A),
Mayor: Državna cesta (D), "statale"
Minor: Županijska Cesta (Ž), "strada di contea"
Primary: Localna Cesta (L), "strada locale"
Street: Cesta, ... "strada"

IMHO your definition is correct (no matter if German or Italian type), but I would like you to keep in mind what are the default speeds used by Waze :
Major Highway - 110 Km/h
Minor Highway - 90 km/h
Primary - 70 Km/h

so whatever type of roads you should decide to associate to :
Major Highway
Minor Highway
Primary

Should be in line with the speed limits listed above.

Any proposal is welcome but has to follow such criteria.

...So I would have to re-edit many primary, even normal streets to the status of a Minor Road/Highway....that's really great (bullshit)!!!

Remember that basemap does not recognize
Mayor: Državna cesta (D),
Minor: Županijska Cesta (Ž),
so in almost every Country all roads had to be re-edited in the correct road type.

Is is hell of a job but it has to be done !
In our country , for example, all road on the base map were Major and Minor so we had to re-edit almost over 1.000.000 kms, but it has to be done.

We all know how the routing system is out of order and it changes day by day.

I do not agree on your idea, but at list when assigning a road type keep try to match the requirements listed here :

http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Road ... ifications:

Considering what written by Sebastijan73

"Major roads - roads with 3 carriage lanes per driving directions; speed limit 110 km/h ; no
Traffic lights; no connection to any side road (mine worlds)

They (nearly) don't exist in Croatia"

I do not se the real need to have more Major roads than they are in reality.

For the rest it is important to follow the rules when associating Croatian road types to the Waze ones

Sebastijan
I am perfectly aware of what you wrote , penalties, Ehud worlds and so on.

But what I appreciate the most in your words is that routing in Croatia is better with other navigators than Waze.

In these days we are working very hard to modifie the routing system, and when it will be ready (I hope within a coupe of month) we will have to stick as much as possible to road types (that will not be changed in any way) in order to get even better results than other navigators.

I realize you have a mixup of road, so we could think in this way (just for talking).
It would be possible, even if not perfect, to say :
- main roads outside city boundaries -minor roads
- main roads in towns primary
- major roads - it seems to be very few so you can list them
- all others - street
- Freeways - all higways

I think to that because, as you wrote that your road are something in between minor/primary ,even the default speed settled by waze between the two road type is not so big, so there would not big a significant difference in ETA calculation.

svx_biker stated the type of roads waze should use for routing calculation ....but if all road are edited using correct road typer as they stated, that' s why I have done such a suggestion.

Nothing is sperfect , (obviously), but if the main network of your roads is mainly done by minor and primary, we should concentrate on that !

So resuming,
Out of freeways an the few Major,
- the main road network between towns could be made with minor roads
- the main road network in city boundary area could be made with primary roads
- all the other roads should be streets .

Please do not blame my suggestion, there will always be local exceptions, but here we are trying to set general rules to be followed by all editors

Sebastijan73 wrote:Dear Asterix06,
I am still waiting for some of our other croatian wazers to comment on this Topic.

In the meantime I would like to ask you for a favour:
Before the croatian wazers decide what to do, please stop editing Zagreb and locking streets with Level 5. You changed some streets (for example Vukovarska) to a primary street and locked it, on the other hand there are now some minor roads which are smaller then Vukovarska with a marked as Minor Highway.

If you want to change it all, go ahead, but do it properly!
Have you ever been in Zagreb or even in Croatia?

Please don't take it personal, but this behaviour sucks!

PS: I took a look at the Streets in Palermo. There are Mayor-Highways and in Street-View you can see, that there is a speed-limit of 50km/h. So please, if you really want to clean up....begin in Italy!

I will follow your order !
I will unlock all Zagreb roads

I did not say Italy is perfect!! Simply we established rules and peolpe is on the way to respect !
At list we have rules!

Timbones has another interpretation for his Country ans that's perfectly ok... But they have a rule to follow!

My personal feeling is you do not want any rule.

I agree feel free to do as you like better

And if you want i will restore majors in zagreb ,without lock of course

On top before talking look carefully and you will see that many area managers on My country are following estabished rules ( whatever they are)

@Sebastijan73 I unlocked Zagreb roads, as some one are left, as I wrote you, please inform me.


No way to get another type of road from Waze so, right or wrong, we have to stay with what we have.

In a relatively neat future, it will be added the possibility to set roads as narrow (practically not suitable for trucks) - I'm not sure if in the editor or in client

The routing system showed by svx_biker is what is in use...............but it's so good... that we should have a fully new routing system in a couple of month. (I will keep you informed about).

SO please thy to find a sort of common agreement so we could start.
I am not interested to impose the system we use in Italy: I am interested only to have a Croatian System that will bring Waze to a "reasonable useful " routing.

OT :
the new editor will bring in a few weeks
- house numbers with letters (wiki is now not updated and it will be in a few weeks)
- U-turns allow - disallow (now in test)
- possibility to lock roads at lower level (second half 2013)
- .....some other interesting features

I do not know if you are already beta testers : if not, it would be something to be arranged.

All My best wishes for Easter for you and your Families.

Silvio

@Danilo,
kao što sam već rekao, ti si slobodan izraziti sve svoje ideje.
Nisam ja ovdje da bi teorizirao, već samo za ažuriranje sustava cesta waze-a prema uputama programa (kasnije prilagođene lokalnoj stvarnosti).

Imaj na umu da prema statističkim podatcima koje možemo očitati, mnoge bi se ceste teško mogle uzeti u obzir i samo kao "street".

Ti si slobodan imati svoja mišljenja, Bože moj .............. ali onda ćeš se morati uskoro predomisliti (prilagoditi) novom sistemu routinga koji je upravo u razvoju.

Sebastijan73
I agree with your words/ suggestions.
it will be a lot of job, but I think we can work together to get the best results.

"I'm sure that not every editor knows how to ask for an unlock or is just skipping areas he can not edit because of the lock.

In a very short time, if not already implemented , it wil be put in place a very simple system where every editor can ask for unlock and/or modifications

When we all together finish this job, the next step would be to edit the network of the local-streets and mark every city or village. I'm sure there will be another hot discussion about the way how to label City-/Village-Names and most important Street-Names (there is a big difference between the Original Name and the way nearly all streets in croatia are spelled and named by the public, which lead to a lot of confusion and mismatches when trying to find the destination you want to navigate to). Same problem with Townquarters and a lot of Cities that have many sub-villages within the City with similiar street-names in every sub-village. This also leads to a mismatch while trying to navigate/dinding the destination. [As I know, in germany they have the same problem, for example in Cologne(Köln)]
In my opinion it would be the best if the Waze-Developers would ad a third name-labeling field for "Cityquarter/Sub-Village", because City- and Street-Name is often not enough!

For my personal experience this part of the editing will be even more "difficult" than the discussion about Road Type
Your request of a "third name-labeling field" is is quite good and we started asking for it since 2010, but till now...................I do not see any fuyure for that.

The problem you highlighted for Germany it is exactly the same we have in our country.
The only important thing is that you will Find the most suitable way of editing for you ; the only important thing is that you will mange to create a croatian database that correspond to what a driver can really find on road pannel.

That's really important, because now a day searching engine is based on thid party database (bing, yellopages, etc), but in a future the searching engine will show, as first results, the results coming form Waze database and only later on results from third party DB.

Ready to provide any info you should need.

Dear Sebastian73,

I can see from your various posts that you have some pretty strong arguments on the matter... Unfortunately , I'm still in the group that is against the use of Major Highway road type for our state roads (D-labeled - "Državna cesta") simply because of the fact that those roads are not of that kind (2-3 lanes, max speed 110 km/h). I totally agree with asterix06's proposed scheme for our country with the existing road types at our disposal in WME.

In the same time, I can do nothing else but agree with you that the problem of the road segmentation actually exists, which is obvious from many posts written on the topic, but I can't help myself thinking that your approach of resolving the same is kind of wrong bacause in the very end it would only be a workaround. I noticed you've spent a great amount of time in search of details, definitions and also writing to other communities (i.e. Austrian-German) in an effort to defend your stance (which I applaud because it only shows your passion and your eagerness to resolve this issue) but I would be a lot happier if you used the same energy and knowledge (your pretty good use of english for example) writing directly to the WAZE creators/admins explaining what is missing in the system and what are your suggestions to resolve this (in our case some more road types or subtypes). And if in the end they do actually add them that would be a huge improvement for the whole community because I think we are not the only country with this kind of problem and most importantly we wouldn't be building our navigation based on workarounds...

I would also like to emphasize two important things asterix06 and Timbones mentioned on which I agree:

• - ...many area managers on My country are following estabished rules ( whatever they are)
  - ...we set road type by their classification, and keep them for their entire length

Regards,
Danijel

e neda mi se pisati ni engleski ni talijanski vec cu pisati hrvatski.. kao prvo slazem se sa Sebastianom73..
kao drugo cestu D3 sam ja editirao pred vise od godine dana kao i autoput A6 .. dva puta mjesecno putujem Rijeka Zagreb i obrnuto vise starom cestom D3 a rijedje autoputom A6..
i waze me po obje ceste dovede skoro u minutu tocno (od centra do centra ) .. A6 otprilike oko 1:40
a D3 oko 2:55 minuta .. kazem otprilike.. ovisi o dobu dana i prometu na ulazu i izlazu u gradovima..
drugim rijecima ako je D3 vec vise od godine dana crvena i ako mi pokazuje tocno vrijeme dolaska u cemu je problem...!?!? zato sto je crvena.. jer vas asocira na komuniste!!? ili vas asocira na trnovite ruze!?!
kao trece... u americi ima ne crvenih nego cak plavih cesta znaci freeway (sa po 6 traka u svakom pravcu) kojima je osim ponoci kad je promet malo manji prosjecna brzina u spicama ispod 10 km/h
a kad nema spica do 50 km/h ... znaci oni ih sad moraju pretvoriti na wazeu u street ili mozda Dirt road/4x4 .. ma dajte!???
oni kao automatski podesavaju cestu prema GPS pointovima!?!?!
oni jedino sto rade automatski je stvaranje nepostojecih cesta kad se GPS signal izgubi pa stvaraju nove ceste kojima krate zavoje i preskacu tunele... nista drugo kod njih nije automatski.. ma sto god da oni rekli ili napisali...
i sad bi ja trebao magistralnu cestu kao npr. D8 koja prolazi kros cve moguce gradove na Jadranu u ulazu u svaki grad pretvoriti u street (bijelu) i onda ponovo u crvenu.. tako da vise ni onaj koji vozi nezna kuda ide D8 jer ce se pomjesati sa drugim cestama u tom gradu.. pa ce nakraju lutati ili ako ne bude lutao nece ni znati tocno gdje je od sume drugih cesta...
Magistralne ceste (drzavne ceste) trebaju ostati crvene ..barem dok Waze ne uvede jos neku kategoriju cesta..a ako ne uvede onda ostaju crvene.. Konacno Waze se busa u prsa da njegova navigacija ovisi o prosjecnim brzimama koje je neko vozio vec po tim cestama korigiranim za trenutno stanje... prema tome ne vidim problem u razvrstavanju cesta i ukidanju crvene boje..
eto toliko od mene..ko zeli neka to prevodi a za one na koje se to najvise odnosi znat ce to procitati i bez prijevoda... ovi koji su malo radili i koji su ovdje novi teoretizirate.. ali meni je vise od 2godine prakse na terenu reklo sto je najoptimalnije...
izvinite unaprijed na pravopisnim i inim pogreskama kod pisanja ali kad se iznerviram onda jako grijesim ((