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Segment Proposal, US-x Highways

Post by banished
Southeast AMs,

Several months ago we reached agreement to adopt the shortened SR-xx and CR-xx road syntax in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. Have there been any problems associated with that decision? I ask because I'm interested in any lessons learned that have come from it in case they have applicability to what I'm about to propose next.

You may be aware there's a lot of inconsistency in Waze as to how segment types are defined. Interstates and freeways are pretty straightforward, but when deciding if major, minor, primary, or street is the most appropriate for a segment type we are...all over the map. (A pitiful pun, I know. Just pitiful. :mrgreen: )

The basis for this discussion is the current wiki: https://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Map ... ting_Point, which notes a US highway can be either major or minor.

There are proponents for the appropriateness of local major, minor, primary, & street decisions, instead of some national standardization. I am not one of them. Why? Because I think inconsistency is confusing, both to me as an editor and to drivers. It results in perpetual re-editing of mature segments, even if it is just a matter of differing opinions, at best, or just to generate points, at worst. The effect is the same, either way. Correct me if I'm wrong (it is possible!), but routing is based primarily on speed data and the distance between origin and destination, not on segment type.

When I look at a professional map, whether Rand McNally, Michelin, or any state map, US highway coloring is consistent: They are always red, the same color as a Waze major highway and it doesn't vary from town-to-town. Is anyone aware of anyplace where that is not true? I've looked extensively, but have not found inconsistency.

So the proposal is simply this: Set all US highways as Major segment type, at a minimum. This proposal is caveated, as follows:

1. If approved, it only applies to the states in the southeast area (Alabama, Florida, & Georgia). If you have permission to edit outside of the southeast, you must follow rules applicable to that area.
2. If most AMs in only one or two southeast states concur, then it only applies to those one or two states who adopt it.
3. In no way does this proposal apply to other types of road segments. That's perhaps a future discussion.
4. US-xx (e.g., Major) highways may be set to the Freeway segment type, if they meet the freeway standard.

Looking forward to reading the thoughts of the other Southeast (presently living in) editors.


Best to you,
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Post by banished
My response, posted here.

viewtopic.php?f=129&t=59610&start=150#p624232

I'd like to see the Southeast all on the K.I.S.S. principle, but understand that might be a daunting task.
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Post by driving79
I took a quick glance around most of the area I manage. It seems that the US highways already all are major highways. Once I get to about Palm Coast, I did notice that US-1 changes to a minor highway for some reason, and changes to major again in Oak Hill.

I did notice a few roads that are major, that I'd like to make minor highways. These would be Beach Blvd in Jax (SR), and multiple roads in the Brunswick, GA area that are SR and should not be major. The speed limits are too slow (45 mph generally) and access to parking lots, stores, etc.
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Post by wilbum
I agree that a unified map with consistent coloring for numbered highways would look nice. However, I disagree that this should be the approach for road types because Waze's purpose is to provide the user with the fastest route to their destination (meaning navigation is assumed to be used, but not necessarily followed, in all cases except where the driver just doesn't care). As such, I think the roads should be typed so that the best navigation can be provided to the end user. If US-1 through Daytona Beach isn't the greatest route from Ormond Beach to Port Orange, it shouldn't be labeled as the only major highway in the city (Williamson Blvd provides a better alternative if I-95 is avoided, Nova Rd has more lanes and a higher speed limit than US-1). I would rather Waze have the freedom to pick more alternate routes than be attracted to the Major Highway over the Minor Highway when it shouldn't.

For drives over 20km, US-1 shouldn't be the go-to if freeways are being avoided. Waze should choose faster minor highways when possible. This wouldn't be the case, leading to longer drives, if US-1 were upgraded to a Major Highway.

Just my two, possibly misinformed, cents. :mrgreen:
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Post by wilbum
Is this proposal now moot due to your comment here (viewtopic.php?p=655870#p655870) where you stated that Waze said something about the routing system at the last Champs meeting? Why does all of the discussion exist if this was the given guidance? Was this guidance ever published anywhere?
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Post by wmadjones
I've personally been a proponent of the functional classification approach (see this thread). I know the debate on that thread is far from settled, but in the Atlanta area, many of the editors have been moving this way, and it has helped with navigation by opening up more roads for routing, especially for the longer commutes many in this area have.

In functional classification, US routes are never less than minor, though state routes can be classified as major, too. I get the aesthetic idea, though. Just tossing in my two cents.
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Post by wmadjones
I've held off making any changes in Georgia RE: US and State highways. It'll be a good bit of work in the Atlanta area, but I'm willing to give it a try and see if it impacts routing.

One somewhat related question - for primary streets, would you recommend using this classification for roads listed in functional maps as minor highways that do not meet US or SR standards? For example, in the county I live in (currently mapped to FNC), US-23 is minor, Campground road is minor and SR-155 is major.

If I understand the proposal correctly, we would adjust US-23 to be major, SR-155 to minor and Campground Road to primary.

Should I leave everything as is or begin shifting to your proposal?
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Fixing the southern suburbs of Atlanta one segment at a time