[New Page] WME Chat

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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:26 pm

Is this page out of draft at this point? Seems pretty good to me.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:27 am

kentsmith9 wrote:In the troubleshooting section I propose we consider shorter section headings for the issues. Simpler headings are easier to scan and link from other places. We can move the detailed question into the answer below the heading. I might propose:

=== WME Chat does not exist in my editor window ===
>>>>>>> Missing Chat display

=== A specific editor does not respond to me in WME Chat ===
>>>>>>> Specific editor not responding

=== I lost my chat history. Why? ===
>>>>>>> Chat history lost

=== Chat was working fine, now I don't see any messages? ===
>>>>>>> No chat messages

=== When I post a comment, it shows up multiple times in the chat window. ===
>>>>>>> Duplicated chat responses

Alterations invited if I am missing some key points


I can see your point, but it is also a style difference, trading a more familiar style of writing to something more dry and technical. Your style might also translate better to other languages. I get the issue about linking and easier to scan in the index. I really don't care which way it goes as long as it is consistent, so change it as needed as far as I am concerned. I only have a few caveats...

-- Make sure the content of the body doesn't have to change given change to the title.

-- I don't think "Duplicated chat responses" quite captures the issue. It is not really responses but the own user's entry. Perhaps there are different words. Even "Duplicated chat messages" makes more sense to me.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:17 am

PesachZ wrote:... I'm not sure you notice I also incorporated this into a new section
#Refresh or reload


Yes... I did notice that. I am not worried about duplication in the article as it help people find what they need. If what I entered is too much duplication, it's ok to remove it.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:21 pm

FYI, I posted on the US Champs and Global Champs pages. For those that cannot see the posts, I am going to copy below. The last paragraph about international input was only in the Global Champs post.

It will be interesting to see if and how much comment we get from these requests.

WME Chat Wiki Guidance

Now that we've had experience using WME Chat, I thought it was a good idea to create a Wiki page on this feature that would help the Waze Community. There was awesome participation by a team to come up with a near-final draft of this page.

I wanted to let the Champ Community know about this so you could weigh in with any comments and ideas the team had missed.

The Wiki page is "Waze Map Editor/Chat" or you can search "WME Chat."

Wiki page: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/WME_Chat

Forum Discussion: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=89344

This team was mostly a North American group, so one thing that is obviously missing is an international slant on this topic. We could use help there if there are country-based differences on this topic.

Thanks!
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:07 pm

Hi everyone. I think this is really great progress and is almost ready to go live. The section that needs help is the multiple comment echo problem. If someone with experience could work on this and made a final draft, that would be good. It doesn't have to be authoritarian, but can say that the problem "may" be caused by the following issues (then the list).

I also think this is ready to go live, but before that, we ought to socialize more broadly with the Champs community now that we have a near-final draft. I will post in the Global and US champs forums to see if we can get more input. I will copy my post here.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:03 pm

CBenson wrote:Should we mention somewhere that creating a permalink functions as a browser refresh and thus erases all messages?


Seems like a good idea to me.

I added it to the Troubleshooting section:

I lost my chat history. Why?[edit]
Chat history in the current WME Chat is erased each time you reload your browser window, including when you create a Permalink. Consider only refreshing your screen from the main menu of the editor as noted elsewhere in this article.


I also made some other minor additions.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:48 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:
vectorspace wrote:
  • The rapid-pace, real-time nature of WME Chat may sometimes cause those few participating there to make decisions on specific edits and editing policy that are not shared or socialized with others as they normally would be in the Forum and Wiki. There is no record of WME Chat available to the general editor population. While this can be good to make things move fast, it can also lead to conflict with others who may feel a need to know about what you've done or decided.
    • Each time something significant occurs in WME Chat that could breach Wiki or Forum Etiquette, make sure to follow up later by posting in the Forum, suggesting a change to the Wiki, or sending Private Messages (PMs) to other editors that may have interest.

Great points. I would further suggest that we also add something to say:
No decision should be implemented that goes against the current recommendations and guidelines in the Wiki or Forum until that decision is brought up in the forums for further review. Then if that decision is supported, the Wiki and appropriate Forum entry should be updated to reflect the change in recommendation or guidance.



Kent's comment makes perfect sense to me. Since I wrote the section, I just edited to add his comment. Further edit as needed. Because his idea was overlapping and needed me to separate out the concept of pissing someone off because of creating policy too fast as opposed to pissing someone off because you editing in their region without at least letting them know after the fact, I made some changes. Here was the result:

  • The rapid-pace, real-time environment of WME Chat may sometimes cause those few participating there to make decisions upon edits in specific locations and upon editing policy that are not shared or socialized with others as they normally would be in the Forum and Wiki. There is no record of WME Chat available to the general editor population. While this rapid pace can be good to make things move fast, it can also lead to conflict with others who may feel either a need to know about what you've done, decided, or that your decision was made without input from others. So consider these things:
    • No decision should be implemented so quickly that it goes against the current recommendations and guidelines in the Wiki or Forum until that decision is brought up in the forums for further review. Then if that decision is supported, the Wiki and appropriate Forum entry should be updated to reflect the change in recommendation or guidance.
    • Each time significant editing occurs in a particular area or new discussion and ideas occur on policy within WME Chat that others should know about or could benefit the Waze Editing Community, make sure to follow up later by posting in the Forum, suggesting a change to the Wiki, or sending Private Messages (PMs) to other editors that may have interest. If you're not sure who to write, post in the relevant local forum. (in the USA use the State Forums).
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:25 pm

DwarfLord wrote:This is really great work! I have two comments -- a simple one, and one less simple.

The simple comment -- I would suggest using the word "avatar" instead of "icon" when referring to the hard-hat image representing an editor on the WME map. "Icon" is not wrong but "avatar" specifically means an image that represents a person. This could help reduce confusion because there are other icons (like the Rank Cone for example) but only one avatar.


I agree. If nobody objects, I suggest DwarfLord make this change.

DwarfLord wrote:The less simple comment involves an aspect of the WME chat I didn't see discussed clearly: I worry that the chat "steals fire" from the forums, in two ways.

First, it sometimes appears that many newer editors see the chat as an easier alternative to searching the forums (not to mention the wikis). If there are other editors present who are happy to help, no problem. But if the questioner receives a frosty response or no response at all, having had the bad luck to be the 1,536th person to ask why his editing points aren't updating, the unmet expectation of cheery help could lead to hard feelings. Should it be stated (in red boldface perhaps!) that the chat is not a substitute for searching the forums and wikis?

Second, if a junior editor wants to do something odd or questionable and has found one or two more senior editors who agree with his/her plan, it's hard to resist the temptation to forge ahead without any mention in the forums. Since the chats themselves are not saved, much less archived where they are visible to all, that leaves no record of the plan or the thought process for other editors (both present and future) to learn from. I am not sure how to address this, but it worries me.

That being said, again, this is great stuff, thanks for the good work.


This is a good topic to consider. I have seen discussion elsewhere about this (in fleeting chat areas!) so others are concerned too. These issues you point out are inevitable with addition of WME Chat. I think some people are drawn to interact there due to style while others are not, so not everyone is going to do these things. All we can do is post process or etiquette that these things happen and to beware of them. Via my last edit/addition in "disadvantages" from my post above, I think we're starting to address this. I will enter something based upon your ideas above and you can all look at it and edit as needed. I added it to the Etiquette section because that seemed most relevant. Her is what I added:

  • The rapid-pace, real-time nature of WME Chat may sometimes cause those few participating there to make decisions on specific edits and editing policy that are not shared or socialized with others as they normally would be in the Forum and Wiki. There is no record of WME Chat available to the general editor population. While this can be good to make things move fast, it can also lead to conflict with others who may feel a need to know about what you've done or decided.
    • Each time something significant occurs in WME Chat that could breach Wiki or Forum Etiquette, make sure to follow up later by posting in the Forum, suggesting a change to the Wiki, or sending Private Messages (PMs) to other editors that may have interest.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:10 pm

Fredo-p wrote:How do we fit in that, unlike the forums, the conversations are "private" and don't include the rest of the editing community? Therefor, non-private communications that could benefit other members who choose not to participate in other means of communication except the forums will be "left in the dark" so to speak.

It should be noted that many still find the forums as the go to place for communication in general and that not every one chooses to use social media or external chat options as a means to communicate.

One more thing, don't forget that Facebook is also being used for communications. Some groups have created their groups in Facebook vs Google+.


Really good points...

(1) The ethereal nature of WME Chat is already mentioned in the current article. That's an OK thing. I would suggest that it says something like "If useful insight is shared in WME Chat that does not exist in the Forum or Wiki, please help others by posting that insight in the Forum or suggest it be added to the Wiki for others to access as needed." Existing mention is in the Disadvantages section. I will add this there, but it could be added in other places in the article.

(2) I will add something about social media, please edit as needed.
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Re: [New Page] WME Chat

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:32 am

Thanks PsachZ,

You know, I have to remember too many markup languages to remember the internal link syntax and assumed some good soul would change it for me. I was right! These all look good.

I didn't see Hangouts Pro changes on the article. Did you forget to add that? What is it? I was going to add other items to that list, and will when I get a chance.
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