Looking at various threads or wiki pages, different states have different guidance for choosing to map or not to map alleys. In my managed area, it is not really an issue, but having seen the maze of alleys in SuperMario0O’s territory in the western UP and some other cities, I can see the benefit of mapping residential alleys behind homes since that would be where people can park. I’m also travelling this week in an area where alleys are everywhere, and parking on the main streets in front of homes is generally non-existent.
I happened to look at Illinois’ wiki page tonight and wanted to see if other editors thought that some basic guidance would be appropriate in Michigan: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Illinois#Alleys
I wouldn’t propose to map all alleys, especially not in urban areas where they function more commercially as employee entrances or delivery thoroughfares, and they may not even allow parking. Functioning more as a final destination than a shortcut though, it may be worth considering residential areas where street parking is not allowed or not convenient. Thoughts?
I think that a small blurb in our wiki is worth a shot. I agree that they should be used primarily in residential areas - I’ve been toying with mapping this one in my hometown, since no street parking is allowed on Pine River. Not everyone who lives on that road has a driveway, and several others who live on adjacent streets park in driveways that are only accessible from that alley instead of parking in the available street parking. I know that if I had a GPS app that correctly routed me to my driveway that wasn’t even located on an actual street, I’d probably use that one over other available apps.
The obvious concern is navigation. With the parking lot road type, Waze shouldn’t route you down the alley unless you were specifically choosing a destination located on that alley, so that’s good. However, we would have to make sure that house numbers are correctly placed further from or closer to the main road in order to force navigation down the alley (or to avoid it).With the relatively limited number of alleys that we’ll probably be mapping, it shouldn’t be too hard. We might get a few URs on a case-by-case basis, but they should be pretty easy to fix.
Basically, I would adopt what Illinois has, and then add some language about a) using them for mostly residential areas and b) making sure the house numbers for surrounding streets are correctly located.
If you do map them, make sure you bump the house addresses on the street so they show an editor has confirmed it. Then waze will use it as a searchable address. Then you will need to bump the street the addresses are on to force a map tile rebuild for that segment.
That is our biggest problem in Chicago. The addresses were from a mass down load so they don’t get used in a search. It dumps the search to google where their pins are set back and are closer to the alleys. Once we update the street and addresses, routing improves.
Great guidance. Before doing anything definitive, let’s get some more consensus and test it out. I don’t know if Mario is still in A2 or if he is back in the UP, but it would be great to test in an area like his where there are alleys between every street. In addition to the house number consideration, I’m also wondering if the parking lot road penalty would ever not be enough to prevent usage for thru traffic–particularly with a “shortest distance” scenario.
Guess it could be possible. Just like a restricted turn can be routed thru if Waze sees no other way thru there. I can’t remember finding any around Chicago since we set all alleys to parking lots. Every one routed to an alley was to get to an end location.
I think he’s still in A2, at least for a little while, but I believe he’s headed back up relatively soon for the summer. I’ll get him in here, hold on.
Oh hello everyone! I will be in A2 until around the 4th of May. I am glad we are finally having this conversation because where I am from alleys are extremely important for parking. Another point I wanted to bring up has to do with which road type? and also should we be naming them? I have all of mine named “Alley” but that begins to look quite cluttered in the editor very quickly. Here is a town I just recently made perfect. (geometry and turn restrictions) The problem with my town is that it has had the same aerial since probably mid-2000s.
Benefit of naming is that if someone is directed into an alley, TTS will say alley. With no name, TTS will pick up the name of the next segment which is confusing. Also makes it easier to select all segments named alley to change a road type or direction if needed.
Ahhh I see. Ya that would be confusing. I know I have seen this discussion somewhere before, but can’t remember if there was a consensus. Why do we use the parking lot road type and not private? Private seems much more fitting to me.
Private works the same way and some areas have gone with that. Alley is listed under parking lots in the wiki on road types.
As long as you all agree, either one will work.
I do like parking lot because the way I use the highlight script. I generally have it set to highlight parking lot roads to 1) make sure they are added right in parking lots and 2) to see alleys marked right.
I would vote to maintain consistency with the national road type page and keep it PLR. I would imagine that newer editors would initially pay more attention to the main road type guidance, and I would not want to send mixed messages by having it private on the state page. Just my opinion though.
I wouldn’t be too concerned if something looks ugly or cluttered in WME. The client app is the primary concern for the great majority of users, followed by the LiveMap.
How about the following, using Illinois as a base?
As a general rule in Michigan, only residential alleys should be mapped, and only if they aid in properly parking at or near a residence. Alleys should only function as a starting point or final destination, not as a thoroughfare. If alleys are mapped, the road type should be set to “Parking Lot Road” and given the name “Alley”. Other attributes (city, direction, turn restrictions) should be set as if the alley were any other drivable road.
When adding or editing an alley, an important consideration is to verify that house numbers are properly situated for the surrounding street segments. Waze will route to the closest segment for a set of destination coordinates. This may result in the destination being in the alley, which may or may not be the desired result. Refer to the FAQ [add link] for additional information. If you need guidance or are uncertain whether a certain alley would meet the criteria to be mapped, please post a permalink in this existing Michigan forum thread [add link to this thread].
I like it but after the alley is proven to be residential, how do you determine whether or not it aids in parking? Is that greatly determined by whether the alley has garages/driveways along it? What other things should we be looking for? I am just trying to clarify what separates an alley that should be mapped from an alley that shouldn’t.
You tell me. I have not found any to worry about in Ann Arbor . You bring up a good point in that if you cannot determine, perhaps the alley should not be mapped. In that case, check the house number and bump it so that the car is navigated to the front door. I was thinking of alleys from the standpoint of garages or parking where access is via the alley only, i.e. there is no driveway available on the named street, and it does not appear that street parking is available. Are there other situations around the state where an alley would be needed around homes?
. You bring up a good point in that if you cannot determine, perhaps the alley should not be mapped. In that case, check the house number and bump it so that the car is navigated to the front door. I was thinking of alleys from the standpoint of garages or parking where access is via the alley only, i.e. there is no driveway available on the named street, and it does not appear that street parking is available. Are there other situations around the state where an alley would be needed around homes?