External Links Copyright Discussion

[fernandoanguita]

@doctorkb

Very well put.

One clarification:

Sure we will miss it, and with time some of the buttons may com back, as long Oyyo has the time out of his RL to put into fixing the script. It takes time and effort for free, I am sure Oyyo was the first one unhappy about having to remove the links.

Oyyo has passed on development of Toolbox to a team of developers. We have brought back the alternate Waze links (Livemap / beta switch). As for other links, it’ll depend on what Staff have to say.

Yes, I realized it after I wrote the post. Thanks to the development team !!

I am sure now it will have the best of both worlds, the easy work with the Toolbox and the copyright limits we all must respect (like it or not) and staff will certainly track and ease our work as much as possible within legal limits.

Thanks again to all developers invloved in Toolbox.

Best regards, from Concepción, Chile,

[CBenson]

@fernandoanguita

Waze also has copyright over the donation work we have done, we are not free to deliver third parties with improvements gathered in Waze maps.

I’m not so sure that’s correct.

Waze receives no ownership rights in and to the Content that you submit. However, by submitting Content to Waze, you hereby grant Waze and the users of the Service an irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sub-licenseable and transferable license to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works, display in public and publicly perform the Content.

[fernandoanguita]

@CBenson

@fernandoanguita

Waze also has copyright over the donation work we have done, we are not free to deliver third parties with improvements gathered in Waze maps.

I’m not so sure that’s correct.

Waze receives no ownership rights in and to the Content that you submit. However, by submitting Content to Waze, you hereby grant Waze and the users of the Service an irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sub-licenseable and transferable license to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works, display in public and publicly perform the Content.

Dear CBenson,

Is my english understanding wrong ? or I stated copyright (That is for my understanding COPY-rights), I did never mentioned ownership. Ownership is worthless for isolated segments that are perpetually licenced under royalty free with all the other “royalty”-capable features also for free, worldwide, perpetual and irrevocable to Waze.

As you well stated clearly: When submitting Content to Waze, you grant irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, licenseable and transferable license to use, copy, distribute and others; From YOU to WAZE, not the other way around. It doesn´t say YOU as editor have ANY right to copy OTHER editor´s work in ANY other media, like Google maps or anything like. That includes, street segments, street names, places and all related information.

Waze has that right, the only one that has the right, as a license (Waze can charge for this) to distribute your (and mine) work to others. Waze has perpetual, irrevocable and royalty free license from you to them to do this.

In plain english:
1.- You cannot ask EVER Waze to pay you for your work on the maps.
2.- You have NOT ANY right to share other editor´s information with any other legal person than Waze itself. That includes segments and characteristics you take from streets and places (not made solely by you) out from WME to put in some other database. You can do this only if you made ALL the work, and had not ever received any update or help from ANY other editor.
3.- That doesn´t mean Waze cannot charge others for the database. Waze is the only one entitled to share the entire database or parts of it.

And I am happy to help improve Waze, just like all editors are.

Best regards from Concepción, Chile,

[CBenson]

I agree that we cannot copy other maps into Waze and we cannot copy the Waze map into other maps. So in actual real life practice, I completely agree with you. So the rest of this is likely over thinking this to the point of uselessness. But I’ll go ahead and split these hairs anyway.

@fernandoanguita

Is my english understanding wrong ? or I stated copyright (That is for my understanding COPY-rights), I did never mentioned ownership.

Ownership means to hold as property. Copyright is an intellectual property right. Thus, copyright implies ownership. That is someone must own a copyright.

@fernandoanguita

Ownership is worthless for isolated segments that are perpetually licensed under royalty free with all the other “royalty”-capable features also for free, worldwide, perpetual and irrevocable to Waze.

Agreed.

@fernandoanguita

As you well stated clearly: When submitting Content to Waze, you grant irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, licenseable and transferable license to use, copy, distribute and others; From YOU to WAZE, not the other way around.

It actually says From You to Waze and the users of the Service. So as I am a user of the Service, it seems that when you submit content to Waze you grant me a license to use the content.

@fernandoanguita

It doesn´t say YOU as editor have ANY right to copy OTHER editor´s work in ANY other media, like Google maps or anything like. That includes, street segments, street names, places and all related information.

Again, as an editor I am a “user of the Service” (the Service “allows … users to assemble and update maps”). So it seems that I receive a license to use, copy and distribute the content that you submit. This license is sub-licenseable and transferable. So it seems that I can sub-license or transfer my license to Google as I copy other editor’s work into other media, like Google maps.

However, I as a user through the Terms of Use also agree that I “may not copy, print, save or otherwise use data from the Site or the Service’s database.” The terms of service also state:

[O]ther users may only use your Content for non-commercial purposes, unless Waze provides them with a prior written consent to use your Content for commercial purposes (for the purpose of which you authorize Waze to be your agent).

Thus, it seems to me that my copying other editor’s work from Waze into other media, like Google maps, would not be a violation of copyright, but would be a violation of the Waze Terms of Service. This may be a distinction without a difference.

@fernandoanguita

Waze has that right, the only one that has the right, as a license (Waze can charge for this) to distribute your (and mine) work to others. Waze has perpetual, irrevocable and royalty free license from you to them to do this.

Waze and the users of the Service.

@fernandoanguita

In plain english:
1.- You cannot ask EVER Waze to pay you for your work on the maps.

Agreed. Waze is not going purchase a copyright from you for any content you provide because you provide a license to the content when you submit the content. As far as paying you for your work, I suspect Waze includes the following clause in the Terms of Use to say Waze doesn’t have to pay for your work:

These Terms of Use and your use of the Service, including the submission of Content onto the Service, do not, and shall not be construed as creating any relationship, partnership, joint venture, employer-employee, agency, or franchisor-franchisee relationship in any way and of any kind between the parties hereto. Your use of the Service is intended for your enjoyment and benefit and the provision of the Service to you (subject to your compliance with these Terms) constitutes the sole and sufficient consideration that you are entitled to receive for any Content or other contributions you have made to the Waze Service, its contents, maps and any other data.

@fernandoanguita

2.- You have NOT ANY right to share other editor´s information with any other legal person than Waze itself. That includes segments and characteristics you take from streets and places (not made solely by you) out from WME to put in some other database. You can do this only if you made ALL the work, and had not ever received any update or help from ANY other editor.

Agreed. But not because Waze has the copyright over the donation work we have done. Sharing other editor’s information may be prohibited by privacy laws, database protection laws and other clauses in the Waze terms of service. It may even be prohibited by the copyright Waze has in the map through its arrangement, manipulation and additions to the work we submit. Again, this may be a distinction without a difference.

@fernandoanguita

3.- That doesn´t mean Waze cannot charge others for the database. Waze is the only one entitled to share the entire database or parts of it.

Agreed.

Sorry to be picky. You are correct in practice. But hypertechicnally, waze does not have copyright in the content we submit.

[fernandoanguita]

@CBenson

I agree that we cannot copy other maps into Waze and we cannot copy the Waze map into other maps. So in actual real life practice, I completely agree with you. So the rest of this is likely over thinking this to the point of uselessness. But I’ll go ahead and split these hairs anyway.

It is great to find people that can comment and have different points of view that can express themselves objective and respectfully. I hope some day me meet somewhere in this small world.

Just a last hair, you can transfer copyright (as Waze does request) and keep ownership, cannot do opposite.

Still we are not “so” far away on our view, it is actually “legal grammar”, just some hairs as you correctly pointed out !

Now let´s go back to RL and stop worrying some people that might think polemic will araise.

It was just 2 people sharing some grammar understanding… :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now I go back editting, it is more productive (for improving community experience).

Best regards from Concepción, Chile,