I saw an Update Request submitted by a user which indicated that the GSP is a Toll Road and not a Freeway. I looked at some segments on the GSP in that area and notice not all of them have the Toll Road checkbox selected. Most/all of the GSP segments are locked and I can’t update them.
Is there a super admin, AM, or someone that can select all GSP segments and check the Toll Road box on them?
If I remember correctly, GSP is partially Tolled - meaning you can go for several exits without paying a toll. The segments where you HAVE to pay the toll to use that segment (or that ramp) should be marked, not the entire length of the Parkway…
At least up north you can’t get on or get off the parkway without paying a toll at some point be it on entrance, a toll plaza or when exiting. I would rather see the entire road listed as a toll road.
Due to the effects on routing, this decision was previously made by US editors after a lot of discussion. If you’d like to re-open that discussion, I suggest this be moved to the US forum.
I’m the one who did the GSP from top to bottom and set the toll flags. Unless the last editor is someone other than myself, I feel fairly confident on how the toll flag is set. I’m not saying I didn’t make any mistakes though
I think most of the trouble comes from terminology. To many people, “Freeway” means free (as in no fee) to use and not free flowing/free from at grade intersections. As opposed to “Turnpike” which many people take to mean there is a toll (coming from the historical use of a pike/log/gate to block the road until the toll was paid).
This is of course regional since where I am now in TN we have Norris Freeway which is a winding mountain road with one lane in each direction and lots of connecting side roads and Oak Ridge Turnpike which is the main drag through Oak Ridge with multiple lanes in each direction and no tolls or limited access anywhere to be seen.
And besides terminology, most maps show toll roads in green to contrast with the non-toll roads and this may be way the user is expecting the GSP to be presented.
The Garden State Parkway is partially tolled, and it is possible to travel parts of it without paying a toll. For example, the entire section in Middlesex and Union Counties between US-9 and US-22 is completely free, as it is a former state highway that was never tolled when the NJ Turnpike Authority (owner of the Garden State Parkway) took it over. There are other smaller areas, usually dependent on specific places you enter and exit, where you can also get on the Parkway and not pay a toll. From what I understand, the toll flag should only be set for segments that are absolutely impossible to drive on (legally) without paying a toll. One example that comes to mind is if you get on the Parkway at Exit 120 in Lawrence Harbor and go south to Exit 105 in Tinton Falls, you don’t have to pay a toll, and consequently, the toll flags should be cleared in the southbound local segments of the Parkway between those two exits. The express segments along the same section, however, should be set as toll, as it is impossible to get into them without paying the Raritan toll in Sayreville. It’s complicated, and many of the other mapping systems simply aggregate the entire roadway to something along the lines of “portions tolled,” but, hey, we try to be better than that, and if anyone can untangle that web of which sections are tolled vs not, it’s WeeeZer14. Thanks
I didn’t check; it just came to mind because we used to cheat the Raritan toll like that when going down the shore when I was growing up in Woodbridge…
The Turnpike is much easier - the entire thing between the 2 gate barriers is tolled.
I think we are okay for your example. Though the express lanes are NOT flagged as toll. I think you can do some loops through the service area from north bound to south bound and end up by the PNC Bank Arts Center all with no tolls. The GSP is the definite poster child for only flagging toll plazas themselves!
Yes the NJTP is so easy in comparison – but I did have to remove toll flags at the southern end since you can travel the final few exits with no tolls.
I recently drove north from exit 105 to Exit 142 - which was my preferred way, not learned by the app yet.
Getting on GSP North at Exit 105 it instructed me to take the express lanes, which i hate because its only 2 lanes where local is 3 and less likely to get stuck behind a slow car. Once it detected I was on local it recalculated and instructed me to take the Local to Express Crossover near Exit 116, which i did not. It then recalculated and instructed me to take Exit 117 to make some rediculous U-turn and re-enter the GSP at the same exit 117 and get on Express Lanes. Hyperlink to Exit 117 with my User report. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat=40.42533&lon=-74.20831&layers=BFTFFTTTTTTFTTTTTTTTTFT&segments=31852087
Why does it want the express lanes used and not local?
I have another issue where travelling GSP North headed to Exit 129 for NJ Turnpike, waze will route me to Exit 127 and take RT-9 North which runs parallel to GSP North and exit RT-9 at the NJ Turnpike which is Exit 129 of the GSP. Link to my User Report:
Here is another user report, not from me, about crossing back and forth between local and express for no reason. There have been other reports that i may have closed with “not identified” solution.
There needs to be some reason the software keeps forcing it to switch back and forth, it needs to be resolved.
I have a bit o’ lead in the foot, but I respect all the other drivers and safe following distances, no tailgating or road rage crap here. I hate express because most of it is only 2 lanes and with 2 lanes it is easier to get stuck behind someone.
I hear what you are saying…
This is what I think: Waze use Algorithm that calculates and use different factors to come up with the best solution. The average speed of expressway might be greater than the local one. That could be one of the reason why back and forth. Your experience might not be the best one, and there might be some kind of bug that might cause that but Waze gets improved all the time.
Also, consider these factors as well: Cell coverage, GPS and your device.
That type of routing has been seen in other places that there are parallel roadways with crossovers. The user asked for the fastest route, and it was given. It may not be perfectly sane, but it is the fastest based on the available data.
Naming and road types are correct, so there is nothing to tweak in the editor. It is all the magical algorithms now.
The Turnpike does this too with its inner and outer roadways. The only patterns I’ve noticed is either traffic or just that the exit it wants you to get off at has a slightly shorter (or faster) ramp in one roadway vs the other.
In the case of the Parkway crossovers, it might have to do with the segments’ speed data. I see other pins around my area from time to time where someone complains about a funky dogleg they got sent on. But after looking at speed data for those segments, it makes sense.
I don’t really think there’s anything we can do as editors other than blow away the segments, essentially resetting their speed values, but that might be overkill, and in the end not solve the original problem.
I just commented in another thread about a road in Illinois… I think part of the issue is that in general local and express scenarios are usually close. We’ve seen that while navigating you need to deviate over 50 meters from your original path for Waze to know you didn’t listen. So if local and express are within that margin, Waze can only assume you followed the directions.
Say express travels at 60+ mph and local only hits 45 mph. Waze tells you to take local. You don’t. The roads are too close together for Waze to tell them apart. All of a sudden Waze now thinks you just did 60mph down local.
Our only hope is that the ramps to/from and the cross overs between local and express are separated enough to get 50 meters away so Waze picks up on the fact that we didn’t listen.
In the end, I don’t think there is anything we can do. If we reset all the speed data, Waze is going to probably send people each way like 50% of the time so it can learn. And I bet people will think they know better and will ignore Waze and we are right back where we were – the wrong speed will be assigned to the wrong roadway.
Also, part of the problem with just accepting this for the way it is, is that you have no way of knowing whether it’s picking the crossover ramp - or even a particular one of the two roadways for that matter - because of a close tiebreaker or whether there’s actually significant traffic in one of the roadways that’s it’s trying to detour.
This is especially problematic on the dual-roadway section of the Parkway, since there are no exits over the 25-mile section in the inner roadway northbound, and only 2 exits over that same 25-mile stretch southbound; that’s the main reason I’ve always liked to avoid the “Express” inner roadway of the Parkway. At least on the Turnpike, all interchanges are accessible from both roadways.
I agree for the reasons you gave and I too usually only use the local lanes. Also, for most of the distance there is one more lane for local so you are less likely to get stuck behind a Sunday driver
