First thing we need to test is the none command as the first instruction at a larger MUTI. If the only command is at the exit node, would the u turn instruction come too late? This would be a problem in complex areas - like 14 Mile East of 1-75.
I was told of the opposite TIO order, first one having the TIO for a “U-Turn” the second having “None”. The more complicated MUTIs would almost need to be looked at more closely if you can do something other than a “U-Turn”. Some have been left as two left turn instructions, another thing to thing about is the entry speed.
There is a problem having the TIO first when there is a “turn” after. You’d get the U-turn command, then a left turn command, or even no command pending how it was done.
I have looked through some other instances that I’ve touched on and they all have the “U-Turn” TIO first. Granted they are the simple ones just for the U-Turn only. They haven’t caused any issues, but I’m always open to changes.
Great thoughts! I’ll set up a couple test intersections. The timing of instructions can be beneficial or not when there are other MUTIs nearby.
This particular turn around can be a bit confusing with the one before it being so close. I’m going to test the U-turn instruction on the 2nd node here.
Thought I might throw my hat into the ring. Here’s my idea, illustrated through two scenarios:
I went with the “Continue” TOI given the fact that, while waiting near a MUTI’s exit, a driver is typically facing perpendicular to the highway. At that point, crossing the highway to a PLR or LR is a bit like playing Frogger—not so much a turn, more of a leap.
If this were a “plain” MUTI without roads continuing across from its exit, then “None” would be just as good as “Turn left”.
If I rememberers right, when there are two instructions, sometimes the second one needs to be omitted in the event of when they are really close to each other.
Keep in mind that official MUTIs will have a long name and it may finish by the time you make the actual U-Turn.
I strongly disagree with a second turn instruction if continuing on the opposite direction. A u-turn is a u-turn. If there is any other option then it is a J-turn and should use the “Keep Left” initial instruction.
You mean the “continue” example? I agree that we shouldn’t have “make a u-turn then continue.” In instances like that, it might be best to leave those MUTI’s as “keep left” as the first instruction.
No Lyn, I mean any MUTI that doesnt end in in a simple U-turn ONLY. If there is any other turn option there should be no U-Turn TIO. Instead it should issue a keep left initial then let Waze decide based on turn angles for the second.
1.”Turn Left” (start of lane) At this point may want to think of where the gore (I think that is the right word) is.
2. “Nothing” or “Continue” (J turn) or “Turn Left” (U-Turn)
The areas I drive have a LOT of these. The ones that have double instructions don’t seem to work out well. I’m also not a big fan of the continue straight either, but it might be a personal preference. I can provide you with an example area (based on my proposal) that has been active for a few months.
OK I am feeling more eloquent today so lets see if I can accurately describe my thinking. After reading back here is the guidance as I see it:
* Simple MUTI (U-Turn Only):
The entrance would be a “U-turn” TIO.
The exit would be a “None” TIO. * MUTI with Intersecting Road at the Entrance and a Simple U-Turn at the Exit:
The MUTI entrance from the main road would be a “U-Turn” TIO. (Since only a U-Turn is allowed at the exit)
The MUTI entrance from the intersecting road would be a “Keep Left” TIO instruction. This would indicate to the driver to get all the way to the left hand lane ahead. U-Turn here would be confusing as it would indicate turning back into the PLR. Since the only option is to turn right physically speaking, and keep left instruction would be pretty clear.
The MUTI exit would be a “None” TIO. (This will work with both the keep left and the U-Turn instruction without overloading or confusing the user) * MUTI with Simple Entrance and Intersecting Road at the Exit (J-Turn)
The MUTI entrance would be a “Waze Selected” TIO with an angle to cause a “Keep Left” instruction.
The MUTI exit to the main road would be a “Waze Selected” TIO and would have an angle to cause a “Turn Left” instruction
The MUTI exit to the intersecting road would be a “Waze Selected” TIO and would have an angle to cause a “Best Continuation”, i.e., no instruction. * MUTI with Intersecting Roads at the Entrance and the Exit
The MUTI entrance from the main road would be a “Waze Selected” TIO with an angle to cause a “Keep Left” instruction.
The MUTI entrance from the intersecting road would be a “Keep Left” TIO.
The MUTI exit to the main road would be a “Waze Selected” TIO and would have an angle to cause a “Turn Left” instruction
The MUTI exit to the intersecting road would be a “Waze Selected” TIO and would have an angle to cause a “Best Continuation”, i.e., no instruction.
I did find an issue. If you have “none” as the first TIO for a MUTI it completely ignores the segment name for the MUTI. Maybe instead of none make it “Keep Right”. That might flow better for additional turns.
TFD429 - I like your suggest of U-Turn but put it at the entrance of the MUTI not the exit (only for simple MUTIs) The whole point of the extending the MUTI to the beginning of the turn lane is that it (as you pointed out) give the Name of the MUTI in the instruction and it give better notice of the turn. However once you have committed to the U-Turn it is not necessary to note a turn again unless there is more than one option at the exit of the MUTI.
I’ve always had issues with the current guidance for MUTIs. This was decided before I began editing and involved Sketch and Davidele and others. The official guidance is 2 lefts, and paying no attention to the SWL.
With the advent of TIOs it is a good time to revisit this guidance. One of my main complaints about left/left is for the driver making the straight/u-turn/right MUTI maneuver. Using the left/left has caused many users to believe the first instruction to turn left was for the prohibited turn, especially when the MUTI is close to the intersection it serves. IMO we have better options now for basic MUTIs (those without any interfering segments or alternate exits).
Because the name of the ramp segment is part of the driving instruction, using none/u-turn doesn’t work well as it would cause the ramp name not to be part of the instruction. I have tested u-turn/none and find it much more to my liking than left/left.
Let’s begin with discussing the basic MUTI without worrying about the edge cases until later in the process.
If anyone has objections or alternatives to (U-turn/None) for Basic MUTIs lets start with that, then move on to the edge cases (additional segments on the entry node and additional segments at the exit node) later in the discussion.
