So we have stuff about tolls in best map editing practice, an outdated disambiguation, a section in the partial restrictions page, an outdated page on time-based tolls and PZ’s page, which is linked in the toll tool. To me this is a mess, and I would like to get a unified source on basic info on how to mark toll roads and how they work, with a link to the partial restrictions section for how to set those up. We especially need a place to talk about how the new toll prices feature works and how this affects editing. How could one unintentionally break a toll price file, and where?
Before starting to draft a page though, I wanted to get a discussion going on what our guidelines should be with tolls in WME. Mainly, do we still agree to only flag segments as tolled if they pass through a tolling/ticketing point? Seems like several toll roads are not mapped like this (e.g. in Illinois and Florida), as well as anywhere that toll-free restrictions are used. These all work fine, but I guess you get some weird routes off them with “avoid tolls” on. I’m not sure if limited flagging is still necessary, given that we now can show drivers exactly how much a toll road will cost to drive on. On the other hand, the toll penalty is still per segment, so someone with avoid tolls on, who has to cross a tolled bridge somewhere, for example, would want to get equal options. Also, an advantage to marking only collection/ticketing points as toll is that these tend to be the segments used for setting up toll prices, so we have a better idea of which segments need protection, in the absence of map comments on top of them.
To me, the time-based tolls page is outdated, because we can use toll-free restrictions applied to certain times (and certain directions), which eliminates the need for this hack. So I tagged this page as obsolete. Does everyone agree on this? I think this idea was only used in England anyway; not sure if we even have a roadway that is toll-free at certain times of day and tolled at other times of day.
I was also thinking there may be some instances which previously the compounded inherent minor toll avoidance mechanism for incremental tolls should be removed now that users can see and compare route prices. The ICC in Maryland is one of examples I was thinking of.
Here is my rough draft of a new toll page. It includes:
A critical warning box about potentially breaking prices when you edit toll roads
How tolls and prices are displayed in the app
How toll penalties work (adapted from PZ’s user page)
How to edit fully and partially tolled roads in WME (toll checkbox vs toll free) and how they look. I have written a method to handle time-based tolls where everyone has to pay but only sometimes. This is commented out, while I wait for staff to confirm whether they will make this hack unnecessary.
Which segments to mark as toll. This keeps the current guidance to only mark collection points, while also pointing out that in certain regions the practice is different, and it gives the pros and cons of each method.
Nothing is said about incremental toll marking, since we don’t need it now, and it can cause weird results with the extra transition penalties.
An overview of the toll price system and the different rules
A big FAQ about toll prices.
Let me know what you think of it, and whether more info or images should be added or corrected.
If we can agree on the above content, I propose replacing the disambiguation with this page, linking this page in the best practices page, putting a note in partial restrictions about how they only have effects during their valid time (lots of people have been confused about this), and marking the time-based toll page as obsolete.
In the FAQ under the air section, I would add that the editor should test out the price on their Waze app to verify it is correct(both with and without a pass on)
Very good. I especially appreciate the FAQ in that it gives an overview of the toll tool without actually having to have access to the toll tool. It’s very helpful in knowing why we shouldn’t modify tolled sections without having a ‘toll tool user’ verify there won’t be unintended consequences.
I’d like some discussion on what counts as a Toll as far as non clear-cut “toll-roads” go. As far as I’m concerned, toll roads are clear-cut when it’s on a driving thoroughfare to get from one location to another, the classic toll road.
However, we are also marking Ferries as Toll, as they’re functionally expensive tolls on water, as an alternative route which may save time.
What’s coming up more often as an ambiguous scenario are “tolls to a destination” - such as the top of a mountain, state or national park, or scenic point - all common in New England. I would generally agree to that if the toll provides an alterative through-route for getting from one point to another, but in some cases, the toll is functionally an entrance fee to a destination, where there is no “non-toll” option to go there (other than leaving the car at home). Should these all be counted as tolls within Waze? Or are these glorified parking/admission fees which really shouldn’t be tagged as tolls?
That’s why I wrote “roads through parks that require an entrance fee.” I was thinking of the distinction between Skyline Dr and Mt. Washington Auto Rd. But it’s a tricky question. Some toll ferries just go to an island, but it’s still nice to have the price in there
To address Jay’s concern about fee areas, in the lead it now says “roads through (but not merely into) areas that require an entrance fee”
The no avoid tolls penalty has been published recently during the webinar linked in the page, which anyone can watch. They say it’s 3 minutes. Daliah and Yigal told me that they don’t want penalty amounts in the wiki, so instead of saying “The exact amounts of both penalties are proprietary information and are not published by Waze” (which isn’t true) it now says “The exact amounts of both penalties are proprietary information and are subject to change”
Tamar told some Australian editors that the 3 minutes penalty is applied at the transition onto the toll segment, not off it, so I have adjusted the info about that.
In response to Mark’s comment in Discord, in #All segments I changed “in some regions editors may choose” to “in some regions the leadership may choose”
Minor wordsmithing of #Only collection points
How does this look? We seem to have consensus both here and in Discord over getting this published. Is it ready?
We figured out why this was happening and discussed in Discord. There was a mismatch with permit IDs in some old files. Anyhow, it’s still accurate to say, “the lowest applicable price is shown to the user.” So we good with this?
