NYS Thruway Signage

Map Editors Community United States New York
1

I’ve seen the name for this sign vary around the state and figure we should have one standardized name for it. In an extreme case, it is represented three different ways within 5 minutes of driving in Albany (New York State Thruway, N Y S Thruway, and NYS Thruway). The first one’s text is quite long, the second pronounces each letter, and the third pronounces “nyes.” I suggest “NY State Thruway,” as it reads full (I believe NY will pronounce as New York thanks to our NY-XXX conversion) and saves on text space.

However, I do have to argue against using this sign at all. It is usually seen near on-ramps or on a nearby route leading to the Thruway, but it is almost always accompanied by the Thruway’s interstate designation (Example 1 and Example 2). Is this adding unnecessarily long text and speech to a turn instruction when the large interstate numbers and city names are much more obvious than the small text of the thruway sign? I can understand it on the I-90 sign in Example 1, but look at how long of an announcement would be said and displayed in Example 2.

Thoughts?

2

You make a point of how small the text is in the thruway medallion, but most motorists will recognize the symbol without having to read its text.

Also, some motorists will be following/ looking for the thruway grade rather than any specific numbered highways; also, some small portions of the thruway aren’t numbered highways at all (such as the Garden State connector and the segment in Albany between I-87 and I-90).

So IMHO the thruway medallion is about as useful at the interstate designation and ought to be included when it doesn’t make the name of the text in the client totally unreadable, and should definitely be included at critical intersections like I-87/I-90.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3

That was my thought; use it unless it’s too long. Does anyone know how many characters Waze will display for its direction readout? I know I saw it before, but I can’t find the thread.

Also, do we go with “NY State Thruway” or does anyone have any alternate suggestions?

4

It depends on runtime factors like phone settings, app settings, phone orientation, screen resolution, etc.

I’ve been using “I-87 / NY Thruway” or “I-90 / NY Thruway” for all the related road segments I’ve worked with so far.

5

I got so caught up in the sign usage I completely forgot it doesn’t actually have the word state on it. Whoops. NY Thruway it is.

Have you been changing the name of the actual Thruway segments or just on-ramps/other signage leading to it?

6

I just looked through the TTS/Abbreviations wiki page, and “throughway” has a working abbreviation of Thwy. So we can actually use “NY Thwy” and save another 3 characters, since pronunciation will be the same.

7

We don’t abbreviate proper names, and in this case it only would save 2½ characters width, (see below) I don’t think it’s worth it.

Also we generally as all information on the BGS, and the thruway shield is significant as mentioned above lots of drivers are looking for it and instantly recognized it. I wouldn’t recommend removing it. According to our national guidelines in the wiki for exit/entrance names the interstate shields would be first in the name anyway, so even if the name is long, the interstate Errol be displayed first, followed by the thruway.

Sent using Tapatalk for Android 4.4.2

8

I would say we go with NY Thruway. The other way - NY Thwy - feels like we’re creating an entire name with just abbreviations, and I think NY is a much better-known abbreviation than Thwy.

9

Most people, especially in NY, speak of it as “the Thruway,” not I-87, nor “New York Thruway,” “New York State Thruway,” etc. That points to using some form of the signage for entry indications and as the name of the route. Visitors from afar will, however, home in more on the Interstate number.

So how to apply that, to the freeway, and to its entrances?

FREEWAY

“I-87 / Thruway” or “I-87 / NY State Thruway” (the shield does not have the word “state,” but that is the official name, the shield just didn’t have room for it).

Arguments against:

LENGTH: Not a problem. The name on the roadway itself is (almost?) never used with instructions (TTS and on-screen), because every entrance is named “to I-87 / …” followed by a best continuation onto the highway. If there are a few exceptions, we can fix those. So the long name would only appear on the segment line.

SINGLE NAMING: We have a rule that concurrencies should use the primary name of the roadway at that point. While technically this is a concurrency, the entirety of the thruway has this concurrency. And even though we would be choosing the state name over the Interstate number, the state name is really the primary name. COUNTERPOINT: This also holds true of the New Jersey Turnpike, yet we name the turnpike I-95, not I-95. My answer to that is… the same arguments apply. We SHOULD call it I-95 / New Jersey Turnpike.

SHIELDING: Some editors really like shielding on the map. The shielding system is touchy, and the only way to guarantee a shield is to call it ONLY “I-87”. This is a weak argument, because we can try it and see if we get shielding. Further, even if we cant get shielding, a cute UI feature shouldn’t take precedence over usable naming. There is also a hack that would fix this.

ENTRY

For entry ramps, go with “to I-87 / Thruway” (short form). Definitely no need to use “NY” here. Some of these instructions can get very long, so dropping NY has advantages, with minimal disadvantages. There is no confusion introduced by leaving it out. Those who know what the Thruway is will correlate Thruway with the shield and the highway without squinting or thinking. Those who don’t know what it is will be OK with the I-87 included in the instruction, and are unlikely to read the small shield lettering anyway.

I can’t think of any arguments against, other than the (non-)confusion addressed above.

10

FYI I-87 N / xxxxxxx will still product a shield and not display the text name on the freeway segments, but will show the text name on road traffic and incident reports. Look at the 87/maj deagan as an example

Sent using Tapatalk for Android 4.4.2

11

So to get it to display a name (if we wanted to), it would have to be either:

  1. aaaaa/ I-nn instead of the other way around, which loses shields, or
  2. use the double-segments hack, which is far from ideal, but keeps the shields, or
  3. get Waze to start displaying names along with shields… soon
12

  1. is against national guidance and has been discussed, but rejected. Especially for interstates, the I-## should be the most prominent.

  2. that’s a big hack, not sure its worth the effort.

  3. it should be an option, not always is it best.

Sent using Tapatalk for Android 4.4.2

13

On the point of whether to use / not use the term NY Thruway, for all the reasons mentioned

It is my understanding as a lifelong resident of NY, that the ‘thruway’ encompasses the entire collection of roadway running across NYS [I-90 & I-87] connecting Western NY to the NYC region.

It also is commonly understood that this particular collection of roadways is the ‘toll’ road portion of the Interstates that run through NY.

Just my 2 cents!

14

Ok, so I started naming the road as “I-87 / NY Thruway” from the Bronx/Yonkers line going north as I upgrade counties to FC (currently completed through the Ulster/Greene county line). The road name format is a direct port of what we did over in NJ with the turnpike - “I-95 / NJ Turnpike”. Unlike many surface roads, we decided to abbreviate the state name, and not turnpike or thruway, because the states’ abbreviations are far-better-known than Tpke or Thwy.

It’s a valid point that the “NJ” distinction in “NJ Turnpike” holds more value in that it distinguishes it from the turnpikes in other neighboring states (PA Turnpike, for example), as well from many nearby surface roads also named turnpikes - typically appearing in Waze with the Tpke suffix. With the NY Thruway, however, there is no Thruway in any neighboring state, any other state in the country (I think), nor is any nearby surface road that I know of called thruway.

That being said, I don’t think the distinction is so significant that we need to go back and change the segments already updated, nor do I think “I-87 / NY Thruway” or “I-90 / NY Thruway” is so off that we should abandon it going forward. Also, New York appears on the blue Thruway marker that appears alongside the interstate marker on just about every reference to the roadway. I would also not move or remove the I-87 or I-90 because federal routes should emphasize federal names over other names to maintain a continuous experience when traveling from state to state.

Oh and by the way, to PZ’s point, the name “I-95 / NJ Turnpike” has been very consistently producing I-95 shields on the map, so the extra words definitely do not interfere in that sense. While it would be nice if the map would show both the I-87 shield and “NY Thruway”, it already shows both names in the purple balloon when your route is on that road and is really a lesser priority - for me at least - for Waze to work on than (I’m sure) many other more pressing things.