[Page Update] Forest Service Roads

Hello,

I would like to propose a minor update to the Forest Service Roads WoP page. I have created a proposed version in my userspace here: https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/User:Jcloudm/Forest_Service_Roads.

The changes I made include:

  1. Removed references to being under construction.
  2. Updated all references to 4x4/dirt to refer to new name of Off-road/Not Maintained roads.
  3. Clarified naming convention on roads ending in .0 or .1.
  4. Replaced the Interactive Travel Map section with a new section that references the more accurate MVUM GIS map from the Forest Service.

Please let me know if you have any feedback. Thanks!

  • John (jcloudm, R3, Colorado AM)

You can see the page differences at https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/index.php?title=User:Jcloudm/Forest_Service_Roads&diff=161837&oldid=120936

I don’t see the “unpaved” attribute addressed. I’d at least say if it should not be used on the example images.

Also … why ‘do not map’ for “trails open to all vehicles”? Wouldn’t this be a perfect use of off road type?

-G

Re: unpaved - good point - I have added the Unpaved attribute throughout as required.

Trails are lower quality roads than even what we would map as Off-Road/Not Maintained. They may be open to all vehicles but are not passable.

I forgot you’re in Colorado … where a vehicle trail might need a very specialized vehicle. :lol:
(hashtag RubiconTrail)

Most of the Forest Roads in Florida are not good roads. I would not mind naming them but most are not passable, unless you have a 4x4 truck. Also most of the NF area have no cell signal to ever even see these roads or be able to navigate on them.

I think we’ve roughly reached consensus on the minor updates. I’ll publish by the end of the week unless anything else comes up.

Since we’re opening up the page for modifications, here are some random things I think are worth discussing. If you want to wait until after the master update that’s OK, just figured I’d strike while the iron is hot.

  1. The title “Maintenance Levels & GIS Data” is used twice – I’d suggest finding an alternate wording for one of them.

  2. The second “Maintenance Levels & GIS Data” section includes a table that still mentions mapping as Walking Trails (extreme lower-right corner).

  3. Why does the USFS Places for Waze section specify that the “Park” category be used for campgrounds instead of the “Camping / Trailer Park” category? Not saying it’s wrong necessarily, just saying I don’t follow. (Aside: I fixed two misspellings here of “boarder” instead of “border”, but that might go away anyway depending on how we proceed with point #4 below.)

  4. Can we discuss whether National Forest campgrounds and picnic areas are correct uses for Area Places? I could be persuaded that large and highly visible campgrounds should get Area Places. Picnic areas, and smaller or nearly invisible campgrounds, I’m not enthusiastic about getting dedicated Area Places. My last understanding was that Area Places are primarily for use as emergency destinations or orientation for drivers not necessarily going to that destination.

Here’s some suggested new wording for USFS Places for Waze. Not sure how controversial this might be…

Thanks for the suggestions. Once you pointed it out, having the images separated from the table didn’t make sense. They are all part of guidance to editors on mapping FS data to Waze, so I combined them into one section and renamed them.

I’ve removed the Walking trails reference.

With regards to places, I don’t think we should deviate from the Campground guidance on the places page (https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/Places) which says do them all as areas. I do think we should change the Camping / RV Park category and have done that. Similarly, that same page says map all parks as areas and I don’t generally want to cause a conflict just for USFS areas.

All my edits are live here:
https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/User:Jcloudm/Forest_Service_Roads#USFS_Places_for_Waze

In national forests, campgrounds and small, developed park areas are often the only points of orientation available. Visible from the road or not, they often have signage even when nearby FS roads don’t.

There are indeed some arguments in favor of the AP treatment in the context of wilderness/undeveloped areas. I’ll stand down on this question for the time being.

APs for very small locations do not typically work in my experience as the app doesn’t show them at all except at extreme zoom, so I would continue to question their use, for example, for a 3-table picnic area unless one made the boundaries of the AP far bigger than those of the actual picnic zone, which has its own problems. Meanwhile the Places article predates the parking-lot article by some years and doesn’t really discuss the tradeoffs of using a PLA instead of an AP or PP. However none of that is really a conversation to have in a forest-service topic so I’m happy to table it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. Since this thread appears to have reached consensus I’ve pushed the changes to the WoP.