This one confused me at first. When you apply a TIO to a JB route, the TIO disables all previous turn instructions inside the JB. Say you have Main St included inside the JB and South St is a segment that exits the JB. If a non-TIO route is “turn left onto Main St, then turn right onto South St” and you apply a keep right TIO to the South St JB route, the “turn right onto Main St” instruction is then deleted so you will only hear “keep right onto South St”.
i think this part of the wiki would benefit with a picture of a real like example for visual learners like me. maybe with indicators where you would hear which instruction.
thanks, o
Worse than that, Waze will say “Keep right onto Main St” because it currently uses the name of the internal segment instead of the exit segment. Example: Brush College Rd straight to Zena Rd
Yes, you are right, I missed that little caveat as well. This one little “glitch” is what is keeping me from using a JB in several locations that I want to use one.
Yeah but you can get around this by unnaming the internal segments
True, but that can affect other routes through the JB that don’t have TIO and use the street name. It’s one of those fix this and break that situations.
Does this write up of the JB TIO using FzNK’s example work?
maybe identify which junction node the TIO is announced in case the segment naming will allow a TIO that works with segment naming.
Ok reaching out to FzNK to get the exact spot it is announced. Since it appears to occur while heading eastbound it might not be as confusing to the driver. I am wondering if showing what happens on this path might be a better example. A turn left TIO on JB would just generate “turn left to Spring Valley Rd” and never mention the turn left to Zena. Without a TIO would have "turn left to Spring Valley Rd, and then turn left to Zena Rd which properly guides a user through the JB. The turn left TIO on the JB turn restriction gives the bad verbal instruction of “turn left to Spring Valley Rd” and nothing else and only visually shows the second left.
The instruction is given at the junction of the Brush College segments. If I were to put a JB TIO on the Brush College to Zena series of lefts, the single instruction would be at and named for the first left onto Spring Valley.
A real usage example of where this causes problems is the left exit off of the Hwy 22 E bridge. By removing the internal segment’s TIO for Exit Left and placing it on the two entrances allowed to use the exit (left MH split and center ramp) they both said “Exit Left to State Hwy 22 E” at each’s first junction inside the JB. Not only is that the wrong name, but the instructions come 1/4 & 1/3 of a mile too early, respectively, so even unnaming the internal segments wouldn’t be enough to fix it.
Ok changed to the example above. Also added a section on the “missing” turn restrictions for each first junction on a route since the JB’s TRs take over for those.
Close–but can we replace junction with nodes? I’m not exactly paying attention to how the rest of the article is written, but junctions to me correspond to me as a real-life intersection, whereas nodes are the technical object inside Waze. Perhaps this:
As well, I’d like add more spots to recommend JBs:
- where consecutive traffic signals are timed based on where the traffic is from, such as signals along a diamond interchange, where left-turning traffic may be timed to always encounter a second red signal.
- nodes in close proximity
Nodes are the small white circles in a segment that are used to change from a straight line between the points A and B. These nodes are sometimes also referred to as geometry nodes. The points A and B are sometimes called end nodes; typically end nodes occur at junctions of two or more segments or at a dead end. Since end nodes for a junction box are primarily at junctions, I would like to keep the term junction to prevent confusion with a geometry node.
Waze saves the speed data on the entire segment so all nodes are included. What I am trying to convey is that you need to include the junctions that are included in the backup (PLRs, ramps, etc). So that the data on those intersections where there is a lot of no moving traffic does not affect the traffic that is moving. i.e. you have three blocks of stopped traffic in a left lane but the through traffic and the right turn traffic is moving at speed.
So based on my understanding of nodes, I do not recommend incorporating that change.
I think the current statement “Traffic backs up through several junctions from a direct left turn, an at-grade connector (AGC), an exit ramp, or even through travel caught at a traffic light; where the back up adversely affects the timing for the traffic that is moving” already takes into account the other two suggestions.
For you suggestion about “where consecutive traffic signals are timed based on where the traffic is from, such as signals along a diamond interchange, where left-turning traffic may be timed to always encounter a second red signal.” First diamond interchanges: There is only one traffic light for those going to the left exit so not sure how there are two lights. If there is a back up through a couple of intersections then the current statement already incorporates that scenario.
For your suggestion about “nodes in close proximity”, I think you are referring to junctions/end nodes since the plain term node is just the small white dot within a segment and most people use to refer to geometry nodes. Therefore I think the current wording covers that scenario.
Whaaaaaaaaaat!!! When did this happen??? How did I miss it???
Let me start off by saying that I am not directing this toward you personally, Alan, but to whatever confluence of events led to the terrible idea to remove the word “node” from the one thing that is actually a node!
A node is defined as a point at which lines or pathways intersect or branch; a central or connecting point. In other words, a point at which one or more segments meet. When you select a node (a so-called “junction”), WME says “ONE NODE SELECTED” at the top.
The so-called “junction” is the only thing in the Waze map that actually fits the definition of a “node” and is specifically named as such by the WME interface.
If we want to keep calling geometry handles “geometry nodes”, fine. Momentum is a powerful thing. But calling them simply “nodes” is a ridiculous and misleading step towards oblivion and the complete and utter disregard of both the English language and WME developers’ clear intention.
I used “Junction” in my draft because of the confusion that node brings. Node is the shortened/abbreviated term for five different items within the Wazeopedia. I find that there can be confusion over which type of node an editor is talking about.
The Wazeopedia Glossary says there are five different types of nodes and then lists the following four: end nodes, geometry nodes, dead end nodes, and inter-geometry nodes. At the end it lists those four and junctions; the junction entry mentions junction nodes.
Sketch, Nagamas, and I are all talking about the same concept, it is just the language to be used to make sure it conveys the same thing to all readers.
In my experience, when editors just refer to node, it most often is the geometry node. But understand that others can mean the end node. That is why I tried to stay away from the term and used junction. “Traffic backs up through several junctions [i.e. places where end nodes meet at an intersection]”. It covers the same meaning and stays away from the potential different interpretation of node.
Additionally to have a Junction Box cover junctions seems logical to me for conveying the message to readers. I am trying to state that they should include the applicable junction(s) that are affected. Since each junction is a collection of two or more end nodes, we are referring to the same concept. To state that a Junction Box should make sure to include the applicable end nodes doesn’t have the same flow and also may be interpreted as needing to include the dead end point of a road segment (PLR/PR/other road type) that terminates after the intersection.
Do people want junction/end node added throughout the draft page? I have stated above why I think it clouds the issue but that is just one personal opinion and I have no problem with changing to what the majority of people think will clarify the content.
If you must use the word “junction”, then use the term “junction node”.
I would wager that if you surveyed all the editors who talk to other editors, you’d find that most use “node” to refer to a so-called “junction node”.
Read my post again if you want. A node is a node is a node is a node is a node. And “end node” is just nonsense.
I removed all use of the stand alone word “junction”. Current Junction Box wazeopedia used all three terms - junction node, junction, and node. Junction node was the primary term used so I went with that for consistency and cleaned up the other instances that are in the current wazeopedia page.
In my experience communicating with other editors, “node” is used to mean a junction node, the end of a segment, or a geometry point
If we seek to make a change in this usage, it is going to take a concerted effort.
Two things
First, will add to the bottom of Effects in the editor section. “After the junction box is set up, the selected pathways through it supersede the segements’ turn restrictions on the pathway within it. Therefore, if a segment’s turn restriction within the pathway is later changed, that change is ignored and the pathways selected through the box are not affected.”
Thanks to Kartografer for testing to verify.
Second, the Route icon (snake) has moved from the entry point to the exit point. This will cut down on the number of iterations that you need so I will clarify that in the wazeopedia.
Basically writing up the wazeopedia for what is in production. If UIs change to the new Beta then will update accordingly