[Page Update] Junction Box

[ojlaw]

karto most of these changes on the When to use section seem reasonable.

i’m struggling a little with this

• To prohibit a route across multiple junction nodes, where using a regular turn restriction would also prohibit other routes that should be allowed

for me it’s less clear than the current first bullet and i have to do some mental gymnastics to get to the same place. current bullet:

• Having two entrances to same exit path but one route is prohibited, and a regular turn restriction can’t be used

[anon33958190]

OK, feel free to keep that one. I was trying to generalize, but it’s hard to explain this in text. Thankfully we can use pictures.

[ojlaw]

how about?-

To prohibit a route on the same exit path when there are two different entrances, where using a regular turn restriction would also prohibit other routes that should be allowed.

[anon33958190]

That’s fine. I think people get the point

[ojlaw]

Karto’s latest suggestions have been added.
updated proposal

[anon33958190]

Thanks OJ. I also like to propose a couple small changes to the section on restrictions. I think it needs a little modernization now that JB 2.0 has existed for several years, and now that partial restrictions encompass much more than time-based restrictions. Here’s how I would write that:

Restrictions
Partial restrictions, including time-based restrictions, can be added to junction box paths just like they are to normal node-based turns. In fact, when a junction box is created, any partial restrictions that existed on segments and turns within the box are automatically copied into the applicable junction box paths, making these JB exit arrows yellow. This is similar to how drawing a JB over nodes with full turn restrictions causes applicable JB paths to have red exit arrows. After a junction box is created, all restrictions are controlled by hovering over its exit arrows and making changes there rather than on underlying segments or turns.

[ojlaw]

sounds good to me. that was another section i added because it was in the exit arrow tooltip but didn’t really built out. thanks for working on that.

[ojlaw]

-i added Kartos Restrictions edit
-i added “link to example” for all the examples since the examples aren’t section headings with links and people may want to send a link to just the example.
-i reformatted what was the Visual instructions section to “Instructions” with subsections Visual instructions and TTS and added Kartos suggestion from discord to the new TTS subsection- “Even though the TTS box will show the name of the exit segment in gray, this name may not actually be what’s spoken. If the name of the exit segment is required in TTS, be sure to confirm it by clicking the TTS field before saving the JB turn instruction.”

i did this reformatting because visual instructions is part of the Turn instruction panel and giving it a subsection in Instructions allows for future development of the other Turn instruction panel elements if necessary like the addition of the TTS info.

let me know if those changes are reasonable since it is a difference on what we have been working on.

hey @subs5 any more thoughts on

still need feedback on
5
7
8
11

my previous reply was

5. i’m still lost. talk to me like i’m a six year old on this item. send a URL to the section and propose exactly what you want to add/ change. thanks.

6. i believe you mean only clarification needs to be added for TBSR for entry segments. because if a turn is restricted via a red junction arrow or a time based restriction on the junction arrow then that route should be restricted

7. i get the gist of what you are saying but i’m unclear on where or what exactly you want added/ changed.

8. but you can delete nodes now edit: you can delete nodes out side the JB now

9. is this the same as 8?

on 7. we have added additional info on the restrictions section so maybe this covers what you want.

thanks!

[anon33958190]

This is looking really good. I just checked out the example you added from Cincinnati with JB visual instructions. Thanks for taking the time to explain that one with all the images, even though it was like the most complicated instance of using JB visuals in the Discord so far :mrgreen: That made it a strong use case

Good idea on the example links too!

[ojlaw]

i think it’s looking pretty good. we’ve been discussing the changes for a few weeks so i’ll give this another week or so to hear any comments or change requests. then i think it will be time to publish.

[ojlaw]

thanks everyone for the help on this. the changes have been published.

[ojlaw]

although i just realized that this page has some info that should probably be on the junction box page

Waze routing servers use the junction box traffic data instead of the underlying segment and node traffic data, though it continues to collect both sets of data.If a junction box is deleted and then recreated using the same segments before too much time passes, the Waze routing servers can use the previously stored junction box data for any segment IDs that have not been deleted.

thoughts?

[nzahn1]

Sorry I’m late to the party, but it looks like some good work has been done recently. After skimming the most recent update, I also thought that one complication unmentioned in the article was routes that don’t start and end outside a JB don’t have to follow the JB restrictions, prohibitions, etc and don’t use the JB data when calculating routes/ETA. Maybe we can drop an mbox somewhere regarding this limitation. (Language open to wordsmithing and clarification, of course.)

NOTE: Routes that do not start and end outside a Junction Box will use the underlying segments for routing and instructions. This means that JB speed data, route restrictions, and instructions that have been overridden by the JB will not be used by the app in these cases. Examples where this could occur are: when a route’s destination is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route’s origin is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route is recalculated inside the bounds of JB, such as after a missed turn.

[ojlaw]

@nzahn1

Sorry I’m late to the party, but it looks like some good work has been done recently. After skimming the most recent update, I also thought that one complication unmentioned in the article was routes that don’t start and end outside a JB don’t have to follow the JB restrictions, prohibitions, etc and don’t use the JB data when calculating routes/ETA. Maybe we can drop an mbox somewhere regarding this limitation. (Language open to wordsmithing and clarification, of course.)

NOTE: Routes that do not start and end outside a Junction Box will use the underlying segments for routing and instructions. This means that JB speed data, route restrictions, and instructions that have been overridden by the JB will not be used by the app in these cases. Examples where this could occur are: when a route’s destination is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route’s origin is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route is recalculated inside the bounds of JB, such as after a missed turn.

i think this is a good idea, i’m not exactly sure where it belongs. maybe at the end of the overview section?

For ETA purposes, the routing server does not consider segments wholly within the junction box, but rather treats the junction box as if all the segments which enter or exit the the junction box are connected to a single junction node.Junction boxes are considered only by the routing server. Junction boxes have no visibility in the client or on the live map. Junction boxes do not affect the search engine; the origin or destination of a route may be contained in a junction box.

NOTE: Routes that do not start and end outside a Junction Box will use the underlying segments for routing and instructions. This means that JB speed data, route restrictions, and instructions that have been overridden by the JB will not be used by the app in these cases. Examples where this could occur are: when a route’s destination is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route’s origin is inside the bounds of a JB; when a route is recalculated inside the bounds of JB, such as after a missed turn.

[ojlaw]

but maybe Drawbacks is a better section. the drawbacks section mostly deals with editing but this seems like it would fit better as a drawback than in the overview section. i also propose a little wordsmithing:

NOTE: Junction boxes are only considered by the routing server when the route fully traverses through the junction box. Routes that start or end inside a Junction Box will use the underlying segments for routing and instructions. This means that junction box speed data, route restrictions, and instructions that have been overridden by the junction box will not be used by the app in these cases. Examples where this could occur are: when a route’s destination is inside the bounds of a junction box; when a route’s origin is inside the bounds of a junction box; when a route is recalculated inside the bounds of junction box, such as after a missed turn.

also from the info from a few posts above i think it’s worth adding this to the beginning of Improving data collection"

Waze routing servers use the junction box traffic data instead of the underlying segment and node traffic data, though Waze continues to collect both sets of data.

and adding this as a bullet in Editing:

If a junction box is deleted and then recreated using the same segments before too much time passes, the Waze routing servers can use the previously stored junction box data for any segment IDs that have not been deleted.

[ojlaw]

ok, coming back to this. i will post this unless there are any objections. here is the diff from the current JB wiki
changes are

1. mbox at the end of the overview section including nzahn1 suggestion
2. a little rewording of the data collection section
3. bullet in editing about data retention when deleting and recreating a JB

thanks.

[anon33958190]

Can bullet points be added inside a mbox? That might help

[ojlaw]

@Kartografer

Can bullet points be added inside a mbox? That might help

looks like it, what do you have in mind? i just added these real quick as a test

[anon33958190]

I just meant bulleting the examples.

[ojlaw]

gotcha, done.