“Other area places, like University campuses and large shopping malls, include more than one component, such as one or more buildings, open areas, roads, and parking. In this case, it is often most useful to Wazers to map to the edges of the property. This will usually show the area and its label in the mobile app even when zoomed out.”
Currently the Wazeopedia dictates that places like shopping malls should map the entire property to the edges. With the new-ish PLAs being added to these areas, we can find ourselves mapping some clutter and confusion for Wazers if we continue to map the entire property line.
I firmly believe that we should map the building for a shopping mall and not the entire property. This will allow a clear distinction between the mall and the PLAs surrounding the property. Since the wzo currently states otherwise, I would like to see this be updated to guide editors to map only buildings.
The mapped building still shows up in the app in a very clear way and provides a very distinct separation from the PLAs surrounding. I have two examples. You will see that the University Mall example provides a much better view for the Wazer.
Note: All of the PLAs are set to Restricted.
Westfield Citrus Park Town Center (entire area mapped) PL
As it shows in the app
University Mall (only building mapped) PL
As it shows in the app
Per the Wazeopedia for Parking Lot areas: " Care must be taken that stacked areas like this do not obscure each other. You do not want two areas with identical boundaries stacked on top of each other as it will be hard to notice or select the right one for editing in WME".
This is a conflict with the guidance of area places. One cannot avoid stacking if the Area Place guidance is to edit to the ‘property line’
I have to agree with gOyDp that it’s time for a change. With more functionality in the app, i.e. searching for PLAs and who knows what else is in the future planning, we are moving into a more complicated map. Before, mapping to the edge of the property of a mall, campus, etc, made sense. The Wazer had somewhat of an idea where they would end up in the highlighted area just because of the stop point.
Now, with PLAs being added to the map, I believe it is actually easier for the Wazer to determine where they want to end up for their destination. The front door, or a specific PLA. Granted, PLAs are only slowly being added to the map, but we’ve all noticed how quickly they have been added by folks who aren’t your regular editor. For a generic driver, “Hey, I can get more points this way!” they are adding parking lots and probably don’t have interest in becoming an editor.
And really, how much harder is it for the more advanced editor to modify a large area? Sure, it takes a couple of minutes depending on how complicated the area is, but it’s nothing spectacular.
Personally, I’d rather see the actual mall/building size of something with the associated PLA as individual items on the map than one big huge place area designating an entire complex. It gives me a better idea of where I might want to park and how much walking may be involved. With the large place area, I haven’t a clue. And especially with some of the mall sizes? Sheesh!
I have been doing this suggestion in practice for a little while and agree it’s time that we should adjust this to go to the building rather than the fenceline where parking lots have been mapped.
I can see exceptions to this rule, i.e. parks, gas stations, etc. But for most business mappings, it does make more sense.
I’ll throw my vote in for pulling shopping malls and the like back to the buildings and not overlapping PLAs. As others have said, I believe it would provide for a more visually appealing experience.
It does appear that pulling back the area place to the brick and mortar, is appropriate in some instances. At least for LARGE area places, like Malls and Shopping Centers. Now that PLAs are mapped, it makes sense. But the discussion needs to consider the differences that exist for smaller areas, like government buildings, police, fire, etc.
However, some large areas, by the nature of their layout, would need to stay unchanged, with PLAs within those confines. Universities and schools come to mind.
I agree. I find little value in seeing all these shopping center AP all over the map. Most shopping centers are large and do not have identifying signs all over the place, so to me they don’t serve as useful landmarks. If not remove them completely, then at least pull back to the actual building outline. I just find my app screen cluttered with all these things that don’t really help me.
So how do we go about getting this updated? Do we need a poll? I would say on large shopping centers with more than a certain amount of stores. And map just the edges of the buildings. Also only have shopping center with more than say 10+? stores in it. Make others points but I dont think most user are navigating to most shopping centers. Most are going to specific stores or addresses.
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly and have felt this way for years. In fact, I have deviated from wiki and mapped them this way myself for years. (Sorry not sorry.) I think it looks much better and much easier to understand at a glance. Looks like an actual place and not just an indeterminate blob of area.
I have got to say I don’t understand at all people who think mapping malls as areas is a waste or “clutter”. Malls are among the best and most universal references we have in the US! “Meet me at Five Guys for lunch. The one by Lakeside”. Best Buy uses “Lakeside” as the name of their store a couple blocks off screen because this one is near Lakeside Shopping Center. Someone asks you “where is that store”, they say “it’s on Vets by Lakeside”. There are very few place types that are more visible and more often used as that kind of reference.
(I just wish they’d stop doing that inane thing where lots above a certain size are a different color than lots below that size and show names when smaller lots don’t. It’s preposterous and looks like garbage. Also you can ignore my area car dealerships )
Can you propose specific language that should be substituted in that section? I don’t see any opposition, but it would be good to agree on something specific
I agree with pulling back to the buildings. I think some definition needs to be given to the term ‘large.’ Additionally an exclusion list would be needed (gas stations, fire/police, etc).
There were reasons why that “map to fenceline” guideline was chosen at the time area places first came out, some time before summer 2014. A lot has changed since then, including guidance from waze staff to the community.
Sketch is already drawing malls to the building instead of to the fenceline, apparently with no ill effect. Are there any caveats to that (other than size issues)? Do any of the other champs who participated in the discussions that led to the “map to the fenceline” guidance have any concerns based on their earlier and more recent area place experience?
When dealing with standard indoor malls, mapping just the building works, but in an outdoor mall environment all the buildings are separate and spread out over a large area. In these cases there would still need to be a large area place to signify the shopping enter is there and to separate when there are more then one center in the area. In Jacksonville FL for example there are 6 distinctive different shopping centers and within each multiple different buildings. This is very common shopping center design in Florida and indoor malls are becoming less popular. Below is a PL to what I am talking about.
That appears to be effectively a jacked-up strip mall. If you can park directly in front of virtually every store in the place, it’s not a traditionally-laid-out mall.
But there are plenty of “outdoor malls” which are still laid out like a traditional mall, like The Mall at Partridge Creek in Sterling Heights, Michigan, which has outdoor walkways (lord knows why anyone would design something like this in a place where 8 months out of the year are too cold to be outside) but is laid out normally. Another example is The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio, Texas. This is also a common layout and can be easily and well mapped by following the buildings.
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