[Page Update] TIO: Continue

Map Editors Community United States US Wiki Discussion
1

Since “Continue” is a new paradigm to controlling instructions, I think it’s worth a separate thread to discuss generic places that a TIO for “Continue” can be used (i.e., this is not meant to be an exhaustive list). Some of the previous discussion was in the main TIO thread.https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1636&t=213375&start=40#p1568735

FYI, the continue prompt is “Continue straight to…”

Here is the revised list I propose:

Add a Continue TIO:
1) When the best continuation is to a restricted area (border control point, military area), paired with a wayfinder. [1] [2]

2) When the best continuation is tolled, marked or unmarked, paired with a wayfinder. For barrier-toll systems, only at the beginning of the toll area. [1]

3) When the best continuation are the termini of a freeway.
—If the freeway is signed before the termini, the prompts should be at the point of no return.[1]
—Otherwise, the prompt should be at the termination point of the freeway. [1] [2]
---Consult with your state manager if the freeway status changes frequently or gradual, or if the freeway itself is insignificant.

4) When the best continuation from a road (including off-ramps and parking lot roads) is an on-ramp to a freeway or expressway.

5) When the name of the continuation off of a ramp is not immediately obvious because it was:
—a) not previously named on a sign and or TTS [1] [2], or;
—b) named, but not otherwise indicated or obvious that it is in fact the road that continues straight (vs. a turn) [1]

6) When a wayfinder is warranted, for a particular direction:
—a) all travel lanes are correct [1], or;
—b) only the center lanes are correct in a 3±way fork (i.e., “keep/turn/exit left/right” are incorrect)

7) When lanes/vehicles continuing straight are dominated by turn lanes and/or volume of cars turning.
Consult your area managers for consensus.

Do not add a Continue TIO:
X1) If it is an obvious continuations that are not otherwise listed above.

X2) When the only change is that a local road name changed.
Such as when a neighbourhood road crosses into another arterial and changes names.

X3) When the only change is that a freeway changes designation, but is not signed.
Some freeways are so short that they are never signed by name, merely as “to I-xxx”.

X4) When a wayfinder is warranted, when the continuation is not in the middle of the road.
While the continuation may lead in a straight direction, Wazers need to pick the correct side of the road. Telling them to continue straight would not be productive. Use keep left/right instead.

X5) At intermediate barrier toll plazas.

Original list:
[hide]1) The best continuation to/from a ramp or freeway from/to a different road, when there are other turns available. These are often signed by a forward arrow on roadside signs.
This includes when:
(a) The freeway and its corresponding designation ends or begin:
---- (i) at another freeway/expressway,
---- (ii) at an intersection
(b) A ramp reaches a controlled intersection, and one can continue straight:
---- (i) onto a local road
---- (ii) onto an on-ramp back to the same road (i.e., straight through in a diamond interchange)

2) The best continuation is from one road to another road.
This includes when:
(a) one freeway ends and another begins, or
(b) one road merges to an existing road.
(c) and other Y-shaped setups where the Wazer
This gives better context as to where the list of instructions (and exit number) is representing.
This instruction can be presented in 2 ways:

  • If the subsequent continuing road is signed at the last exit prior to the name change, add a wayfinder stub (and match the BGS) there and add the TIO. Example
  • If it is not signed, add the TIO at the actual node where the merge occurs. Example

3) The best continuation is tolled (i.e., bridges, tunnels, and ferries, rural interstates).
If you were already travelling on the freeway, you wouldn’t hear any prompt for “Toll”. These places are often coupled with actual signs that say “LAST EXIT BEFORE TOLL” for the non-best continuation.
We can use a BGS where available, or just “[Road name] / Toll”.
Relying only on the $$ sign is not very salient, as currently, we already see Waze ignoring the “Avoid toll roads” option when there are no close alternatives (in San Francisco).
On the contrary, this doesn’t really work with barrier/open tolls: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_toll_system

4) At an intersection where the quantity of turn lanes and/or volume of cars turning dominates the amount of lanes for the best continuation.
Wazers here would prefer being reassured that going straight is correct. This one you’ll need your AMs.

5) The best continuation is an international border crossings
The majority of North Americans do not carry enough ID to successfully cross the border, and these “blind” drivers. It’s best to give reassurance that they will be crossing the border at the “point of no return”. They’re often coupled with actual signs that say “LAST EXIT BEFORE USA/CANADA” for the non-best continuation. Again, we can use a BGS where available, or just “to Canada”. We can also experiment with using emojis. They display correctly and read as the unicode short name (but break phpBB LOL!)

6) Where a wayfinder is warranted, any travel lane is correct for a particular direction.
Any of the lanes used to enter the wayfinder junction is correct; the other direction only contains lanes that fork at the gore, or a short distance prior.

[7] When a wayfinder is warranted, the desired path is the centre of the roadway (neither left or right).
Example: [1][2]

[8] Where a numbered county, state, or US highways change designations. (Freeways are already covered in 1a.)

[9] At state lines on roads where numbered exits are reset.
“to Oregon” or “Mile 0: Oregon”?

Ideally we can vote/ship each use case separately, as some are more contentious and ambiguous, while some are just ‘common sense’.[/hide]

2

Here are my thoughts on these:

When exiting a freeway or transitioning to another freeway, I think there should be some consideration for the number of lanes that go in each direction, and how far before the interchange these lanes start. For example, if one lane exits right and three straight lanes transition from freeway to MH, I don’t think a continue is necessary. In fact, my Garmin does this (and also gives an instruction nearly any time a freeway meets another at an interchange) and it drives me crazy.

However, I do see the value in always giving an instruction when transitioning to a freeway from a lesser road type, and using continue where keep/turn/exit instruction would be confusing due to road layout or signage. This way, you don’t have wazers pulling out of their neighborhood onto a PS and being told that their next instruction is an exit. I have found many examples of this.

This has been stated in the other thread, but I feel that we should be really careful how we go about this. I feel strongly that we should not give an instruction for the sole reason that a highway number changes, rather I think that clarity of instruction with regards to choosing the correct lane should be the concern. Again, if three lanes go straight to the new freeway (with one caveat), I don’t feel an instruction is needed.

A Caveat: on US interstates, there may or may not be a numbered exit tab on the BGS. If the continuation is signed with a number, that would be a strong case to provide an instruction.

I agree. We should give some instruction as a clue that drivers are about to enter the “point of no return” onto a toll road.

This sounds good to me, though I’d need to see specific examples to decide whether they qualify.

I don’t edit near the border so I don’t have a dog in this fight. :wink: However as someone who has driven both into Canada and Mexico, I see the value in providing some indication that one is about to reach a border crossing. Maybe there could be discussion of some standardized instruction ‘to Canada’ at all border crossings.

3

I agree with grsmhiker on this. Every time when a road transitions from a non-freeway into a freeway there should be a “continue” IMO. There should also be a “continue” when driving straight onto a ramp which takes you onto a freeway.

When transitioning from a freeway to a non-freeway I don’t think it is necessary or warranted. It’s the shock of entering the freeway that merits notice. That said, there are cases it might be helpful, but I think it can be handled by number 4 or other rules generally.

I think this should be the case where there is an obvious “continuation” due to geometry only but where it deposits you onto another road and there is another choice. In particular, this should generally be used where the freeway/highway that’s ending is a mainline highway or a spur route from the highway it’s meeting.

Examples

There are some places I don’t think it’s necessary, including with bypass-type routes re-joining the route they bypass, where it is obvious how to do so.

Examples

I agree too, but " / Toll" is not the way to do it. It looks bad, “Lake Pontchartrain Causeway / Toll” looks like some kind of route that is also named “Toll”? Much more sensible to put “(toll)” at the end. “Lake Pontchartrain Causeway (toll)”.

This is sort of a variation on wayfinders, but yeah. Probably better to have specifically-defined guidance here (same as wayfinders) based on the number and/or percentage of lanes dropped.

I think these should be treated case-by-case, for example if it’s a freeway exit it should follow the sign (which might say, e.g., “Exit 47B: Bridge to Canada”); if it’s a freeway or highway continuation, I would think it should keep the name of the road and say “(entering Canada)” at the end.

Of course, not all of these will always be a “continue straight”, so this is becoming somewhat of a tangent, but anyway. I suppose my point is that a “continue straight” won’t always be necessary when the instructions already make it clear that you’re leaving the country.

So in this example you let the “exit right” handle it for the freeway and add a “continue straight” from the frontage road to the parallel ramp.

Some more examples, along with the street name it should maybe be changed to:

4

Here are my thoughts on the combined responses so far.

Definitely agree with grsmhiker that the transition TO a Freeway or MH is key if it is a continue.

I think that for road names that don’t change in a continue, there is little need for them unless the navigation is confusing without the continue TIO. I expect that to be more rare. I too hate with other navigation systems tell me I have another 10 miles until I continue to keep driving with no other change. When a single lane exits that is definitely NOT a time for a continue on the other lanes. However, if the number of lanes exiting matches the number of lanes continuing, I think you could make a case.

I definitely support a continue when the road name changes for a continue. That has been the crux of my complaint for not having a Continue instruction. This is especially helpful on freeways when the current road continues into a different freeway. The exit numbering is usually completely different and it is confusing to see the next exit instruction is Exit 435 and the one I just passed is Exit 14. Also on city streets, we have a lot of continues that change road names and the current road turns. If I knew I was on a certain road name and I see a big sign saying that road name is turing, I think Waze messed up and forgot to announce my turn. If it announced I was continuing in that case, I would not be confused.

Seems reasonable.

This is a little like #2, but different. For the same reason #2 should have an instruction when the current road turns, I agree when the majority (more than half) of the lanes turn, as a driver I want reassurance I’m supposed to be going straight.

Seems reasonable.

5

It appears I was creating my response simultaneous to Sketch. Since I did not include his thoughts in my response I have looked them over and unless I am mistaken there is only one point I think we deviate.

I am generally fine with the first set of examples. Those seem more like standard wayfinders and you can now select continue to make it sound more correct.

It is actually the second examples that I think are still important for the reason I mentioned in my prior post:

.

6

I get that regarding exit numbers, but on really short bypasses I just don’t think it’s necessary. I-610 is under 5 miles long and bypasses an 8-mile section of I-10. You aren’t on 610 long enough to get used to the exit numbers 1 thru 4 before you’re in the 200s again.

I suppose it is arguably a wayfinderesque situation because a lane is dropped at either end, although on the east end the dropped lane isn’t to I-10 W.

7

For me it’s not just exit numbers, but also the main road name. If I see I’m on a certain freeway and then I look at a sign that says I’m on a different freeway with no announcement I think I took a wrong turn or maybe Waze is using a route that is not my preference. I don’t see the down side in the case of freeways or MHs.

8

I side with Sketch on this one. I’m not crazy about implementing a continue just because a particular freeway number is beginning or ending. If I can get away with a vast generalization, my impression is that drivers fall into two categories: either they don’t care what the highway number is as long as they know which lane to be in (they’ll notice if the freeway suddenly becomes a surface street but won’t care if I-610 suddenly becomes I-10 with no change in road type) or they have the wherewithal to recognize that the numbered highway is changing and know in advance that they will be transitioning onto another freeway number. In either case I think that reassurance of correct lane placement is more important than our providing confirmation that a highway number is changing.

9

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle here. I think there is some value in being told where you’re going when the answer is not large-scale big-picture obvious and when there is a choice, even if the answer is locally obvious (i.e., obvious based on the geometry of the road).

I picked these examples because they don’t really qualify for WF based on the lane geometry, but I have put some there anyway as a reassurance.

All travel lanes in each example travel to one direction of the freeway it meets and not to the other. By geometry it is obvious where you need to go. But looking at it big-picture, if the route you’re coming from is (1) a spur of or (2) unrelated to the route you’re going to, it’s valuable to be told which way you’re going to end up, and the “continue” is just a better way to state the nonstandard WF I already have there.

Here, this is the southern terminus of I-55, which starts in Chicago and ends here in the swamp. The local configuration of the lanes is such that both travel lanes continue to I-10 E, towards New Orleans, while westbound traffic toward Baton Rouge actually has to hop off on a normal-looking exit ramp to the right and follow US-51 for a few hundred yards to get to I-10 W. Locally, the lane geometry makes it obvious, makes sense on a local commuter scale based on who’s actually using that route day to day, and the path to I-10 E doesn’t get an exit number. But big picture you really wouldn’t expect I-55 to default to one way or the other at its southern terminus.

The next is the northern terminus of I-310, which starts in the swamp and ends in the swamp. It’s a fairly short spur route between I-10 and US-90 about 12 miles to the south. Locally, both travel lanes take you to I-10 E toward New Orleans, which makes sense given who travels it locally and why, and the exit to I-10 W is on the left, fairly standard for a left exit. In this case the ramp to I-10 E does get its exit number. Either way, conceptually big picture, there isn’t necessarily any reason that such a spur should default to one way or the other, so I think it is valid to be informed that you’re continuing to I-10 E.

The last is the eastern terminus of US-90 BUS (unsigned I-910). This is a sticky wicket! This one is more complicated. In fact, the ‘stay to the left’ to I-10 W that is currently there is a relic of a time when a lane was dropped with the exit to I-10 E, but they reconfigured it to add a third lane last year or so. Anyway, I kept it because, like the others, it’s not conceptually big picture obvious which way traffic from US-90 BUS E should default when reaching I-10, even though it is locally obvious based on the lane configuration and the fun historical fact that together that stretch of I-10 and that stretch of US-90 BUS were (and still are) both part of the Pontchartrain Expressway. But it would be better to use the “continue” instruction.

On the other hand, the ends of I-610 are obvious in the big picture, as well as by geometry and locally. It’s a 5-mile bypass of an 8-mile route of I-10. As a bypass, it has a “default” relationship with I-10 on a conceptual level—when you reach the eastern end of I-610, you continue eastward on I-10, etc.—which need not be called out when you are rejoining I-10, because both for long-distance travelers and for local drivers it makes sense. In this case, even though one of three travel lanes at either end is dropped (not enough for WF criteria), I’m not sure “continue” are needed.

10

I think we’re on the same page there as far as the reasoning goes; I definitely think there needs to be some consideration for the “big picture” when deciding whether a continue is necessary.

I’ve driven all of your examples except for the I-310 one (well, I’ve driven past that interchange many times while traveling to/from Jackson, just never approached it from the south) so your logic in each case immediately makes sense to me. I’ve driven I-610 twice and the first time (on my first visit to the city before the days of smartphones) I didn’t even realize that I was leaving I-10; I just followed the straightest road on the map. The second time I realized that it was a secondary route, but followed it because I was routed that way and I knew it would save time and distance.

Here are two similar examples where I’ve mapped continue:

I-240 in Memphis - At this location you have two lanes that exit right, one lane that exits left, and two lanes in the center that travel straight to become I-40. Doing so keeps you on a beltway loop around the city that consists of I-40 on two sides and I-240 on the other sides. I didn’t feel that a keep left was appropriate given the proceeding left exit, and this is an interchange that used to frequently get update requests from confused drivers… though we’ve seen far fewer over time as we’ve improved on the layout. Thus it serves as a great example of one justification for a continue prompt… to clarify instructions on an interchange that is inherently confusing to drivers.

Where this MH merges into a US highway - I originally set this up as a test of the TIO feature on a route that I drive daily. The case for it is rather weak compared to some of the previous examples, but it marks the point where an MH merges into an inter-city major arterial that is nearly a freeway in several places (and which actually does become a freeway before terminating at I-40). My justification for leaving it in place was that, if one were to be navigating this route, the visual “style” of the roadway changes so many times - it traverses two cities and one mountain town, is a four lane divided highway at times, a two lane mountain road at others, and even has signed exits in other places - that I felt it just seemed a little odd to have a driver make a turn on a nondescript road in a quiet area of a national park and be told that their next turn in 35 miles is to keep onto a ramp to I-40, while in the meantime we expect them to cross through a diversity of urban, suburban, and rural landscapes. In a way it says up until this point you’ve been meandering past mountain scenery and poking along on a city street, but past this junction you’re going to be on a major roadway and it’s about to get real.

11

Two important things to note as well, aside from that we announce “Continue” at node:

  1. It shows up on the turn list that a Wazer may view at the beginning of a drive.
  2. It would be mentioned at the “In n minutes, exit”.

I believe our middle ground is that “Continue” should be used to set context.

In sketch’s counter-example, the argument is that local drivers already know that I-610 merges back to I-10, so we don’t really need to set context. However, non-locals, wouldn’t know, and I don’t see the harm. As well, reading the exit list would make more sense, as you can see that you leave I-10 for I-610, and back to I-10. Regardless, at the ends of I-610, drivers will need to merge, so it would be beneficial in reminding the driver “In 2 miles, you’re going to have to do something.”

12

May I suggest a simplification?

  1. Anywhere that a freeway changes numbers, where there would normally be no announcement because of Best Continuation, and where there is a MUTCD sign stating “END xx-xx START xx-xx”, that a Continue instruction be used.

  2. Anywhere on a freeway where the number of BC lanes is less than 2 times the number of non-BC lanes, then a Continue instruction is used. A KL/KR may actually be more appropriate.

  3. I disagree on tolls because here in NJ we have a road where you might get charged a toll at an occasional booth if you go far enough, or you might not if you get off early enough. I do agree that it may be appropriate on bridges or such, especially high tolls like NYC-area.

  4. I fully agree on international borders.

  5. I agree with this: “4) At an intersection where the quantity of turn lanes and/or volume of cars turning dominates the amount of lanes for the best continuation.
    Wazers here would prefer being reassured that going straight is correct. This one you’ll need your AMs.” This is really an extension of my number 2.

13

Basically I came here to ask that this exact scenario be included in the WoP.

I don’t agree that a CS should not be used for the sole reason that a highway number changes. I believe a CS should be used in these cases (all, or none at all) especially since the exit numbers change. There is at least one example in NJ where exit numbers on the pre and post highway are within a few digits and we get lots of URs from confused users. Exit instructions are rather disorienting here … imagine passing exits 26, 27 and 28 and then being told to exit at 26!

14

I am not familiar with this type of sign and to my knowledge have never seen one.

The MUTCD is a national document, but it is a document of standards, and some of those standards are optional. Not every state DOT uses every sign in the MUTCD, as some are optional and some have alternative forms.

15

That’s a barrier toll system (open toll system), which I mentioned doesn’t really work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_toll_system

In that system, you could put a continue in front of each toll plaza, but I do not edit in any open toll areas, so I wouldn’t know what expectations are.

–

As well, when is “In n minutes, exit/turn” announced?

I’ve never heard it announced on a ramp. Again, I personally prefer for a “Continue”, at the end of a ramp segment, if it is at an intersection. Can someone provide a counter-example that we prefer Waze to be quiet?

As well, do we want these “slight turns only” to be Continue or Turn?
https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lon=-122.33466&lat=47.52228&zoom=7&segments=54652574,54543265
https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lon=-122.16773&lat=47.59821&zoom=8&segments=66319817

I feel using “Turn” has some sort of lane implications, and Continue straight doesn’t.

I have also added another item:

Example: [1] [2]
[3]

16

That’s the challenge here… there’s very little consistency on this type of signage between regions/states and even on different roads within a state. Often they’re not even signed at all and sometimes they’re only signed with the continuing road with no indication that you’re leaving another numbered highway. The west end of US-50 is a good example of this… there’s no indication that the US highway is ending and someone who’s not paying attention to the massive BGS might not realize that they are entering another road.

17

I’m inclined to say that the first one (wow, what a nice view of downtown from the intersection :D) feels to me like it could either be continue or “stay to the left”.
That second one though strikes me more as a “turn left” despite the straight arrows.

I agree with those cases and think the text “Where a wayfinder is warranted” is critical there… essentially we’re just changing an existing stay left to a continue.

18

As well, informing the user at this point, there’s nothing the Wazer can possibly do. Hence, my preference for the TIO where the last exit on the ‘original’ road when the ‘new’ road is signed (i.e., pick the correct lane), or at the actual merge point (the user has to merge).

19

How about (6) At the foot of an exit ramp, for the straight-ahead motion to the entrance ramp (e.g., at a standard diamond interchange)?

The drawback is that this only works when the interchange is with an undivided roadway, and at first I was hesitant to recommend this as it might create an expectation that if it happens some places it should happen everywhere, but upon further thinking I think it is perhaps better to do it now where it can be done and worry about the rest later (perhaps in the future when you can set a TIO on a JB route).

Purpose is of course to say “No, you dolt, get back on the freeway”, rather than to say nothing at all.

edited to add By the way, here’s a pretty decent example of a place where you’d want a “continue straight” due to dropped lanes.

eta2 I thought you guys would be able to find it by magic, but in case you can’t here’s the PL to my pretty decent example :smiley: https://www.waze.com/en-US/editor/?env=usa&lon=-93.74385&lat=32.51009&zoom=7&nodes=17394047 (h/t Nagamasa)

20

From sketch’s post above:

Including this back to the original [1]:

  1. The best continuation to/from a ramp or freeway from/to a different road, when there are other turns available. These are often signed by a forward arrow on roadside signs.
    This includes when:
    (a) The freeway and its corresponding designation ends or begin:
    ---- (i) at another freeway/expressway,
    ---- (ii) at an intersection
    (b) A ramp reaches a controlled intersection, and one can continue straight:
    ---- (i) onto a local road
    ---- (ii) onto an on-ramp back to the same road (i.e., straight through in a diamond interchange

And adding a new place:
[7] When a wayfinder is warranted, the desired path is the centre of the roadway (neither left or right).
Similar example here: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lon=-122.26962&lat=47.46270&zoom=7&segments=54614863

I feel like there are many flavors of TIO now (7+subsections). Can we bring a vote or state that we’ve reach an agreement on specific sections?