[Page updates] Roundabouts and junction box

[anon33958190]

@ojlaw

i agree with lisa that removing some more fluff would be good. here’s what my hatchet would do-

i would delete all of this-

Oftentimes when streets become more congested, planners will install a roundabout to get traffic to flow more freely. This section shows the steps to get from an existing intersection to a new roundabout.The situation starts out like this, where the roads are no longer aligned with the new plan, and now there is a roundabout which we need to create. This situation is fairly simple because all the segments are connected together already.

i would move this whole section- https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/User:Kartografer/Roundabout#Scheduled_creation to https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/Scheduled_reconfiguration

i don’t think there is any other wiki that includes scheduled creation so it would be good to keep it all in one place.

is this section really a thing anymore? https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/User:Kartografer/Roundabout#Improving_manually_drawn_roundabouts
i’ve never seen a manually drawn roundabout and it seems the map is a lot more mature than when this article was published

i’ve never seen a node that can’t be deleted is this really true? i suggest deleting it- “some nodes can’t be deleted from roundabouts”

thanks for the hard look at this article from what started out as adding the JB section

I agree at all points. Never seen a manually-drawn roundabout, and I think we have had enough experience over the years to get rid of the stuff about persistent nodes and segment ID issues. I wasn’t sure about the scheduled reconfig section, but I guess I didn’t want to make a new draft of that. I just moved that section to the bottom with the understanding that I will add it to the other page.

Wow, this is getting a lot shorter than it was. I like it. New diff

[anon33958190]

I decided to add a little guidance about turn instructions, saying in the “creation from intersection” section that if the signage for an exit differs from what would be generated by the primary name of the exiting segment, add a turn instruction at the exit. I also mention turn instructions as something you can do with junction boxes, where the signage for an exit is different at different entrances.

Current diff

I appreciate the input on this! If I don’t get any more comments within a week, I think this will be ready to publish.

[ojlaw]

did what? i’m not sure what you added can you link the sections or explain what you did better please.

[anon33958190]

Creation from an intersection (before the section on ovals)
If signage for any roundabout exit does not match what would be generated by the primary name of the exiting segment, add a customized turn instruction at the exit.

and

Junction box

2. They may be used to provide customized turn instructions where signage for a particular exit is different when coming from different entrances.

[ojlaw]

thanks. the page is beast and the diff is becoming hard to track with each new change.

this paragraph has three different parts,

Just as with drawing new roads, the segments of the roundabout which were created in the last step must be confirmed. That is, each segment needs the country, state and city. Please see the updating details to confirm the road section for details on this process. If the roundabout doesn’t have a name, which is usually the case, click the None box next the Street. If the roundabout is a named circle on local signs, its segments can be named just like any other road. This is particularly important if addresses are on the roundabout. If this roundabout is a local landmark, such as Dupont Circle in Washington, DC, an area place may also be drawn inside it with the Park and/or Junction/Interchange categories, as appropriate. If signage for any roundabout exit does not match what would be generated by the primary name of the exiting segment, add a customized turn instruction at the exit.

can we break it up so it’s not such a big wall of text with different concepts? maybe

Just as with drawing new roads, the segments of the roundabout which were created in the last step must be confirmed. That is, each segment needs the country, state and city. Please see the updating details to confirm the road section for details on this process. If the roundabout doesn’t have a name, which is usually the case, click the None box next the Street. If the roundabout is a named circle on local signs, its segments can be named just like any other road. This is particularly important if addresses are on the roundabout.

If this roundabout is a local landmark, such as Dupont Circle in Washington, DC, an area place may also be drawn inside it with the Park and/or Junction/Interchange categories, as appropriate.

If signage for any roundabout exit does not match what would be generated by the primary name of the exiting segment, add a customized turn instruction at the exit.

[anon33958190]

Yes, I felt like that may have been too much in a paragraph, but I was trying to balance out white space too. I separated that stuff and added a couple links to the road types section below and the speed limit section on roundabouts on the speed limits page, and I removed a fluff sentence about confirming roads.

[url=https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/index.php?diff=174506&oldid=174504&diffmode=visual]Diff from current US roundabout page

Diff since my last post[/url]

[ojlaw]

ya, i get minimizing the white space concern. an option would be to bullet the points that are not on topic to RA segment creation. like this-

Like all new roads, each roundabout segment needs the country, state and city filled in. Please see the updating details to confirm the road section for details on this process. If the roundabout doesn’t have a name, which is usually the case, click the None box next the Street. If the roundabout is a named circle on local signs, its segments can be named just like any other road. This is particularly important if addresses are on the roundabout.

To determine the road type, see the road type section below. To determine the speed limit, if applicable, see the speed limits section on roundabouts. When the process is complete, all other attributes have been set, and the edits are saved, this is how the new roundabout looks.

Other considerations

• If this roundabout is a local landmark, such as Dupont Circle in Washington, DC, an area place may also be drawn inside it with the Park and/or Junction/Interchange categories, as appropriate.
• If signage for any roundabout exit does not match what would be generated by the primary name of the exiting segment, add a customized turn instruction at the exit.
• Some new roundabouts may be announced by local authorities before their construction, complete with road closures. If this is the case, map the roundabout in this way while following the procedures outlined for scheduled reconfigurations.
• For further reference, please watch this video on roundabout creation.

i think this might be getting close to the last nit i have to pick

i don’t feel like this section is entirely accurate

To minimize inefficient routing, it is important to be careful with the road type assigned to the Roundabout itself. Any routing penalty going from connected roads to the roundabout must be kept to a minimum, but it should not be too “attractive” where routing through it is encouraged when unnecessary.

again i think there is some fluff with the first sentence and we aren’t so much dealing with routing penalties (unless the RA is PLR or PR) but more pruning considerations. also i would need some help understanding how a roundabout could be made more attractive if it was classified higher than the current standards. it just seems that the few segments of a roundabout being a higher road type would be negated by whatever the segment type the in or out is. so i propose streamlining that paragraph to something along the lines of:

“It is important to assign the correct road type to a roundabout so routes through the roundabout will not be pruned nor any transition penalty be given if the roundabout is set to PR or PLR.”

thanks!

[anon33958190]

The bulleted list is a good idea. I made it as you suggested and moved the images up a bit to eliminate the white space.

The road types section was the only one I hadn’t reviewed for updating. I went a little further in eliminating fluff there, since the importance of road types is explained better on the road types page. I just left a link in the opening paragraph, so it’s like this:

It is common to have multiple road types meeting at a roundabout. For proper routing and consistent appearance, the correct road type must be assigned to the roundabout itself. The road types of interest in are, in order from highest to lowest, Freeway , Major Highway , Minor Highway , Primary Street , Street , Parking Lot Road , and Private Road . Since a roundabout is not a limited-access interchange, two freeways should never meet at a roundabout; however, it is conceivable that a freeway might begin or end at one.

Diff since my last post

Diff from the US roundabouts page

[ojlaw]

thanks. i think i’m good…until something else pops into my head

[anon33958190]

I published the changes. I made the discussed changes to the junction box page, (detailed over here), I then moved my draft page to the roundabout page, fixing double redirects and reducing single redirects. I then moved the little section about scheduled reconfigurations over to that page.