In the errors section of the junction box page let’s remove the “No roundabouts” line, as it’s no longer true. Also in the when to use section under “Appropriate times to use a junction box” I would like to add a line:
To correct routing issues or improper turn instructions in roundabouts
I also would substitute every mention of TIOs and turn instruction overrides with the new term, voice prompt.
When this feature was being tested in beta, Gil asked us to remove all the weird things we’ve done to hack routing in roundabouts, because they are not needed now. With that in mind, I would like to remove the hack sections under bypass and replace it with guidance to remove the hacks with junction boxes and information about how to use JBs with roundabouts, including how to force bypass routing and use JB voice prompts. Also, I propose changing the page title to Roundabout rather than Roundabouts, in keeping with WP style. I can fix any double redirects, although many links already point to Roundabout anyway.
this is a good start. 2 things jump out right now-
i think using the word nodes instead of segments would be better because you have to include segments outside the roundabout
" If the junction box completely contains only roundabout segments (not approaching segments), these voice prompts will produce the proper roundabout spoken and visual instructions, such as “at the roundabout, turn right” and “at the roundabout, take the fourth exit”. Normal and non-normal instructions can be used in the same roundabout. If extra segments are included in the junction box outside the roundabout, the navigation instructions will not work as expected, "
do not remove this section that has strikethrough. this is a common error and i reference this section of the wiki frequently.
"What not to do
Do not junction the incoming and outgoing segment at the same node in order to prevent the redundant turn. Multiple segments at one node causes incorrect exit numbering, and, in some cases the distortion can cause incorrect normal instructions, (for example - “at the roundabout, turn right” to users continuing straight, if they travel through only 90° of the roundabout from entry to exit).
Do not move the incoming segment after the outgoing segment to make Waze avoid the exit. This is also a distortion if the roundabout and can cause incorrect roundabout instructions,"
For the pictures on the “Creation from an intersection” section, I think having a roundabout without the median separation for the in and out that meets Falcon dividing criteria would be better.
There is a lot of dated information in that section, from the images of two different roundabouts to the old WME versions to the thing about never naming roundabout segments (proven to be false and unnecessary). The whole section needs a rewrite with new images honestly. My proposal doesn’t involve it
OK, I updated my draft with revisions to the section mentioned by Alan and some other stuff about entries and exits, giving more leeway to divide entries and exits at roundabouts with the Falcon changes. I changed the guidance about how we never name roundabout segments to say that if a roundabout is named on signs, just give it a name basically. This is common practice for many years in certain areas, and there are no problems with it.
this section seems to take awhile to get to the point. most of it was written before JBs were possible. seems like it could be shortened to something like
seems like it could be shortened to something like
this might be a nit pick but this whole section seems like a big wall of text that would be easier to digest if it were broken up a bit
maybe something along these lines
i’m neither a formatting genius nor a good word smith so do what you like with that thanks for your time working on this!
Thanks very much. I have incorporated your suggestions, with slight modification to the second one. I can get too wordy easily.
There’s actually a lot of redundancy and white space on this page. Some of it is my fault, like those examples I added as one of my first wiki edits five years ago!
this looks good. could you maybe update the diff now?
also one more thing on the page that i think could use some work in this section
this statement could use some clarification because Waze will mix normal and non normal instructions at the same RA. but this statement has caused some confusion in the past because it of the “entire roundabout” but i think it’s just the exits from the entry path in the example.
looking at the whole page now i’m wondering if the What is a roundabout and what is not section would benefit with adding some language about traffic calming circles. the Edits to avoid wiki does have some info on this but often editors just look in the roundabout wiki which doesn’t address these.
things that can be indications of a traffic calming circle are lack of roundabout signs or yield signs, presence of stop signs, and their small size that fits within the footprint of the standard cross shaped intersection. one of the reasons these are not mapped is they are often placed on several intersections on one street. when continuing on this street it becomes a nuisance to continuously see and hear instructions to continue straight at the multiple roundabouts
it may be a regional preference so maybe something along the lines of check with a local SM or regional leadership if traffic calming circle should be mapped. here
is an example where local leadership has elected not to map the traffic calming circle as a roundabout.
Yeah I agree with adding language about traffic calming circles. One interesting example is here. where due to the presence of signs I would think the roundabout left turn instructions make more sense, whereas having a bunch of continue instructions in a row is still annoying. We can always JB them to give no instruction on the continue.
That works. I would also like to add a little section about scheduled reconfigurations with roundabouts, since the way roundabouts are physically constructed and mapped in WME is a little different from other roads.
Referring to your wordiness, I think the page could be cleaned up a bit if you stick with only necessary information. I would remove things like “This situation is fairly simple because all the segments are connected together already.”, “This is as simple as it sounds:”, and “…, selected because the shape of the letter is round, like a roundabout.”.
There is probably more that can be cleaned up, but those distracted me just reading the first part of the diff. The more “fluff” that gets added, the harder it is for someone to digest the important content.
Haha, yeah this is one of the oldest pages on the wiki. I guess I hesitated to remove some of the language that has been around for like ten years. How does this look? New diff
thanks for your time working on this!