I have received a report from this segment and I am seeking further editors opinions on how this report should be handled and if this intersection should be changed.
Just recently I changed the configuration of the entrance from Allison St onto the ICB, so that it would produce no instruction, but would produce a turn left instruction for turning onto Abbotsford Rd.
The Allison St connection node was one further North. This meant that drivers going across from Allison St to ICB were receiving a turn left for Abbotsford Rd and then turn left for ICB.
This report is saying that the right turn for ICB on Abbotsford Rd does not come early enough.
There are road markings stating clearly ICB in the right lane, and also two large BGS’s saying right lane ICB/Clem 7 right lane.
FWIW, the correct instruction at the intersection should be entry to ICB as it is a ramp. That I will fix.
But, should we alter this intersection to make the turn instruction be earlier? And if so, how?
Irregardless of where the instruction is given, I agree it should be an “Exit Right” as it is an on-ramp.
However, since you agree that it is a Ramp, why not have it commence where it would if it was any other ramp: where the ramp diverges from the main road, which in this case is where the continuous line begins on Abbotsford Road?
Doing the above will ensure that the correct instruction is given in enough time for Wazer’s to be in the correct lane when they need to be.
A few other issues in the area (in my opinion - keep in mind I’m only a level 1!):
As it is an entry ramp, it would be enter right. Exit ramps are exit right or exit left.
This is where we need to be careful and think about how to draw the intersection. Measure twice, cut once. If you pull the ICB off ramp back all the way to the where the continuous line starts, and have Abbotsford Rd going South splitting at this point. Where does the Northbound lanes of Abbotsford Road join the two way part of Abbotsford Road.
Remembering we try and avoid split roads as much as possible.
And also you need to factor in that you still need to get the TTS correct for Allison St.
The driver receives two BGS warnings and road markings as well. That is much more than a lot of places get. Waze is only a complimentary feature to help with navigation. Not something to rely on. We try and help.
Also, waze does not provide lane guidance and I am wondering if we are getting close to that :shock:
In regards to fixing the other issues, I have a feeling that we might be moving some of these segments and junctions around, so those will get sorted in their own time.
One issue at a time. Always deal with one issue at a time
That’s why you’re posting and I’m only here to provide spare change
When I initially read this the other day, I would have agreed with you, but now that I’ve thought about it some more I’m actually sticking to my guns here. Whilst I agree with your point about signage and can see why you would think it is lane guidance, it’s not really. We’re not telling users to be in a particular lane - we’re literally telling them to take the on-ramp, my argument is about where the on-ramp starts. For Allison street, this is obviously at the intersection. But for Abbotsford Road, it is where the continuous line begins. I say this as there is no other way for the someone on Abbotsford road to legally get onto the ICB if they don’t take the on-ramp there.
I tried to find a good example of what I mean but couldn’t find quite what I was after (a on-ramp between two parallel roads which has other ramps join it).
I hoped the other issues would get caught while the area is worked on but thought I would mention them anyway, but your point is good and noted.
I think the best way to look at this is to go back to why the UR was raised:
Since the on-ramp “begins” at the intersection, the Wazer wasn’t given the instruction early enough.
If you wanted to be technical :idea: , Waze is currently instructing drivers to do an illegal right turn at the intersection…
As drivers come barrelling down Shafston Avenue, Lytton Road separates into four lanes. The left two lanes continue on towards Norman Park and roads like Wynnum Road. Cars in those two lanes are usually travelling at 50 kph or more.
Cars in the right two lanes are going to East Brisbane and stop at the set of lights and so their average speed is about 20 kph along that stretch.
With two different instruction, directions and speed data, editors over a long period of time thought it prudent to separate the two ‘lanes’.
This is rarely done as requires exceptional circumstances, such as where two lanes come to a complete stop and the other two lanes continue on.
Since the on-ramp “begins” at the intersection, the Wazer wasn’t given the instruction early enough.
I think I might have to go for a drive and see for myself if this is accurate. What sometimes a reporter misses is the early warning of the 300 metres that sometimes occurs. This is what we do as editors. Test issues out for ourselves
In regards to fixing the Northbound ramps, our changes to Allison St TTS, they will get fixed as this issue gets sorted out.
For instance:
If we take no action with moving the on ramp, except for changing the TTS to Enter ICB: then I will fix the Northbound ramps as required
If we take action to move the on ramp as required, then that will most likely mean moving the Northbound segments as well, and so all the nodes will change as well, and so that will get fixed then
The Allison St TTS issue, which is being addressed across two threads, will be dealt with in either 1 or 2.
TG. We are talking about Allison St here as well. Changes in the other thread could be nullified by what occurs here with the ICB on ramp.
Drive along Abbotsford Rd and onto ICB has been done.
Instructions:
In 1.2 kms turn right
In 300m turn right
In 100m turn right for Inner City Bypass
and also the driver receives:
ICB only lane guidance on the road
Two BGS’s with clear notification of right lane only for ICB/Clem 7.
Yes, we could tinker with the layout of the ramp, but what more really can we do to improve those list of instructions? If the driver is unable to find their way onto the ICB after receiving five, count them, five, helpful hints, then surely they almost deserve to have Bowen Hills and Fortitude Valley traffic inflicted on them
I’ll preface this response with the statement that I’m not arguing with you in regards to what we’re doing here - I defer to you since you know much more and have been editing far longer than than me. I’m just putting down my own thought process and ideas.
I can see where you coming from but disagree that this is similar to the situation at Abbotsford Road. My argument for the on-ramp at Abbotsford road is that it is a separate road (due to the long continuous line, much like any other on/off ramp) - this isn’t the case for Lytton Road (the continuous line starts shortly before the intersection like most sets of lights). (side note: I’m not arguing against what’s been done at Shaftston - as you said, it’s an exceptional situation that required that setup)
Agreed. My only comment on that would be to ask if we could change the instruction to an Enter Right/Keep Right? There’s no “turn” involved. Yes, a Wazer should be able to figure it out, I’m just trying to be technically correct (the best kind of correct).
Will also take the drive it yourself suggestion on board for anything I need help with in the future (although I usually only consider making major changes to areas I know well anyway, not that I think I’ve ever really made any “major” changes).
This is something that I have been impressed with in regards to the waze community most of the time. Especially when attempting to sort out issues in local forums.
There is very little arguments, ranting. Editors can have different points of view, but rarely does it get ‘ugly’.
I think have seen instances of this occur more in general waze forums, or where overall policies are being discussed.
And as for myself having been editing longer than yourself. That is true, but I have taken your comments on board, as you will see below. I am aware that the ramps need to be changed on the Northbound side, which you picked up well.
I will get this change. I wish to confirm, are you now saying that this is the change that you are willing to settle for? That the ramp be change to Enter Right.
Usually doing a drive yourself isn’t required. In most occasions you can use live map and input a representative route and that will give you the exact instructions the driver would have received for the route.
But on this occasion, I wanted to hear for myself not only what instructions were given, but how early those warnings were given in seconds. Yes, I was listening for them, which does make a difference, but still a driver who waze is being directed to the ICB is being told, in 1.2 km keep right, in 300m keep right.
The entrance ramp could be pulled back to where the continuous line starts. And the Northern side of Abbotsford Rd connects just North of here.
I think I have worked out how to draw this and make everyone happy.
Sorry for the late reply I have been and still am away with work. This is all sounds reasonable, what I see with Allison St looks like it will work. I go through here often so will let you know if there any issues.
You were the one who highlighted a couple of issues in the first place and I said I would get back to them and get them fixed. So since they were your changes that you wanting done, and I agreed that a couple of them should be done, it is only proper to double check with you after they are done so you know that this section is now complete.
