I see the N1 is being switched over to be flagged as toll road. As tolling is not actually active on this route yet, and it is unclear when it will be, I’m not entirely sure this is appropriate. Additionally, the R24 (or parts thereof) seem to be flagged as toll road; is tolling actually planned for this route?
The new E-toll gantries only affects the N1, N3, N12 and R21 around Gauteng. None of these are active yet, so only the following routes should be flagged in Gauteng :
N1 south of Johannesburg
N1 North of Pretoria
N17 East of Johannesburg
N4 East and West of Pretoria
According to SANRALs site, the only two additional toll gates activated in 2012 would have been two Mainline gates for Trichardt and Ermelo, which as far as I know is on the N17.
There does however seem to be gantries on the N12 that is also labeled as R24 in Waze, or
same point according to Google.
The R24 technically only starts and ends on these ramps here.
I think this might be where the confusion comes in.
I wasn’t aware of that gantry, thanks. I must have driven under it a dozen times, so I guess either my powers of observation are really poor, or my memory is going… 
I think I’ll try to unflag all the e-toll routes, as it looks like that project is being put off indefinitely yet again.
The R24 starts at the R21 / ORTIA interchange and ends somewhere around Rustenberg (at the N4?); I’m not sure exactly what you mean about it only starting at the ramps you linked (which are at the N12/R24 split). The N12 does share road surface with the N3 (from Geldenhuys interchange to Giloolys) and the R24 (from Giloolys to the split at the ramps you linked), which is confusing.
Even though it IS physically part of the R24 at that point, from an existing SANRAL toll and future e-tolling perspective, that gantry is part of the N12 and listed as such throughout all their documentation.
I think we might have some issues in the future as well where some of our major routes share some common surface at some places. This would especially be true where portions are tolled, as we’d likely need to indicate the major roads as the ‘expected’ major Nxx route as being tolled, instead of the alternate route names.
I have not been out the Rustenburg way recently or closely looked at maps for the area, but there is a possibility that the N4 westwards and the R24 could also share roadway in the Rustenburg area.
Where N / M / R roads share the same surface we’d likely have to give priority to naming similar to the following fashion :
- N1-N18 - National roads, highest precedence, no matter which other class.
- M1 / M2 & future Mx or Gx freeways - Metropolitan.
- Rnn - Regional routes (R21, R24 etc.)
- Mxx - Local Metropolitan (M9, M85 etc.)
- Rnnn - Smaller regional routes R511, R512 etc.
Seems like this is just another one of those we’ll have to figure out :mrgreen:
[EDIT] Apart from the ‘live’ e-tolling calculator, this map might help as well.
I just had a look at the visuals, which I totally discounted in this case. This should ACTUALLY be the determining factor on the route naming.
The signage indicates R24 & N12, in that order, and the R24 signage continues all the way along the route into Jhb Central.
So, despite the tolls being listed as being on the N12, based on signage it’s actually the R24 where it shares with the N12. Go figure.
A case for ‘Alt names’ on the shared segments ? Not sure that the alternates will ever come to good use in the future.
The “toll road” flag is basically just to avoid routing toll roads if that option is selected in the client. So I don’t think it really matters that that segment of road is tolled because it’s actually part of the N12; either it’s a toll road, or it’s not. The naming of the segment should reflect the road signage, so if the signage identifies the road primarily as the R24, then we should label it that way. If somebody wants to decipher the intricacies of the route labelling and tolling, that’s probably beyond the scope of the Waze map 
I do think it would be appropriate to add the secondary route (eg. N12 in this case) as an alternative name to road segments where routes share road surface. This is probably also the right thing to do with the actual road name (eg. Albertina Sisulu Freeway), although I’m not sure there’s any point bothering until Waze actually does something with alternate road names besides hiding them away in the editor.
On the subject of the e-tolls and toll roads. Seeing that we’re one step closer unfortunately to e-tolls, could we partly indicate highways as toll roads? What I mean is that you could for example get onto the N1 South at Lynnwood, and off at Rigel without driving through a gantry, and vice versa?
I currently get on at Lynnwood and am planning getting of at Rigel to drive into Centurion via Hans Strydom/Solomon Mahlangu drive from there on. Would be nice if I didn’t start my day off with a Waze argument.
I would say that only the segments that actually have gantries on them should be flagged toll road (this is assuming no extraneous junctions, of course). That way, if a section of the road is traversable without passing through a gantry/plaza, toll road avoidance won’t exclude it.
I understand that this may cause problems in some cases, with Waze routing you off/on/off/on/off/on segments of a highway when toll road avoidance is enabled, but I think this can be dealt with on a case by case basis, as it is only likely to occur in certain specific situations.
We have that part sort of covered already, specifically with this in mind. See comments further below.
That would be sufficient to avoid tolls in this case. Also, do keep in mind that we already have a Gantry list in the Wiki that includes permalinks, so IF the dates are set, we can activate all of those in a very short timespace, and with daily updates, a 2 day lead time should do it.
What we would need to do afterwards to avoid some of the more ‘funky’ routing that Waze sometimes does, is to go back and forth on each gantry segment, and flag all related segments as toll where, once you drive onto the segment, there is no other option but to pay tolls at some point during the journey.
In the case of GFIP / e-Toll segments, it will likely be all of the JHB Freeway segments and on-ramps to the freeways. There might be some short journeys in between where you can get on & off without paying toll, like the Lynnwood Rd -> Atterbury Rd -> Rigel Ave example.
The ramps leading onto the N1 South Freeway and the N1 South Freeway itself just south of Rigel Ave will be flagged for the Mossie Gantry in this case.
We had updates on 7,8,9,11,13,14,16,22,25 and 27 Nov, usually up to the previous day but lately lagging 3 days, so for the last few updates, the current update process lags by between 2 and 3 days on average for every update. The update frequency is minimum 2 or 3 updates per week, so we have an average lag of about 2-4 days for the normal update process for changes to go live.
If we have them flagged by 30th November or 1st December, they will likely be live around the 3rd, assuming the updates continue at the usual rate.
If not, the next update for the week 1st-7th that includes updates to the 31st/1st should take it live.
Bear in mind that the average still remains the same, even with the slight delay between 16-22 Nov, and the assumption is that there would be no large delays again before that.
Cheers
Carel
I cannot comment on the user’s ‘in-depth’ knowledge of Waze, but can clarify what Waze can and cannot do.
First of all, Waze is free and the maps are not stored on the device. Except for basemapped countries where maps were either purchased from providers or obtained from other free sources with no Legal repercussions involved, the maps pretty much started off as a blank slate. The maps are maintained by community members like you and me, and updated frequently where there is an active community and is easy to update by all. If a new neighbourhood or development is complete, the maps typically reflect it realtime - no waiting for a vendor’s annual or 6-monthly updates to see or use it.
Traffic stats and re-routing based on current traffic is real-time and instant and not fed from other 3rd party providers or sources.
Due to the connectivity requirement, Waze has it’s quirks, but the hardcore users and supporters still swear by it. It is after all punted as a ‘social’ tool for people that commute to work & back home daily - it’s not ‘sold’ as competition against Garmin, Tom-Tom or anyone else for that matter.
Waze is able to route without any connectivity, provided the segments required for the route is cached on the device, so it’s not totally useless offline. Reporting problems, traffic avoidance and real-time warnings will obviously not work in this case.
OK, back to the tolls and statements made:
Toll segments are marked as tolled. The only way to mark ‘obstructions’ as such, is by creating a road closure. This can also not be done just by a single user and also requires some collaboration. If you and a couple of your friend manage to mark so-called ‘obstructions’, you’ll end up re-routing the whole Waze community with you. The first few Wazers to travel through that will clear it again. User reports alone do not affect traffic, they merely act as warnings to other Wazers. Historic data and physical segment traversal by real people with Waze running is used for traffic info.
Only segments or rather complete sections of the road that contain transponders, booths or gantries, are marked as such. If the toll segments are marked as they should per the Wiki’s very short description, Waze will technically only avoid sections of the road where tolls are due. However, due to it’s nature Waze will typically route you along the shortest and/or fastest way possible, which could mean that the Freeway (in our case) is avoided totally. After all, what is the sense of travelling through Centurion on the R101 ( Old Jhb Rd ) through Midrand, then turning back on the Freeway at New Road and then back onto the K101 (Old Pretoria Rd) at Allandale Rd. It will be a longer travel with far more stops & starts, and likely take longer overall.
As a side note, I will also go through some of the currently marked tolls as there are some Freeway segments that need to be split (dualed) to correctly reflect the tolled status in both directions.
He/she is more than welcome to pay for and use a Garmin 3597. Compared to other devices, it is quite snazzy looking with good, solid features and very affordable for a high-end device : http://www.garmin.co.za/prod_detail_premium.php?productid=448&categoryid=12&subcategoryid=11. If ever I was in the market for a device, this one would probably be on my shortlist.
Regards
Carel
Hmm, so he wants to avoid toll roads but not use the avoid toll roads feature…
I think what he meant to say is that he wants to avoid only the sections where there are active gantries and not necessarily the entire highway. This has been discussed in this thread already as we’re only marking the sections of highway with gantries as toll roads. This will be more than adequate to cater for this guys concerns.
Just as a follow-up, roads for the current e-toll gantry list have all been flagged for tolling.
All the points were verified on the 30th November and just the segments with gantries on were flagged as tollable. I went through the complete set today again and all the ‘points of no return’ from where paying tolls cannot be avoided were properly flagged as toll roads. If someone else can also cast a critical eye over this, it would be appreciated.
The Wiki page was updated to reflect the changes.
I have unmarked quite a few sections of the R21 which were previously flagged as toll roads, that should not have been marked.
I also have a query open with the e-Toll call desk as to the location of all 49 supposed gantries and the fact that there is no ‘official’ downloadable list of the gantries, just the interactive map.
According to the gentleman that assisted me, Swan is designated as a test gantry, which totally confuses me as it’s not listed as such on the SANRAL site. (He was quite interested in assisting me with e-toll registration while he had me on the phone after my query was logged)
As soon as I have info on the real deal, I’ll fix what needs to be fixed.
Hopefully we have a map update on the 2nd or 3rd that includes updates to the 30th which should effectively take the minimum functionality live. Any update inclusive of 1st Dec should take the whole shebang active.
Regards
See you on the other side guys! Hopefully the next update is tomorrow.
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It works brilliantly! Thanks to the guys who have put in the work!
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Yep, we are live, but unfortunately missed the mark for the morning traffic
The update included everything up to 1 Dec @ 22:49 local time and so it should be the Full Monty.
The total list published in the Government Gazette is visible on this location map, so we are technically still 3 short.
It seems I’ll have to go and verify the exact locations of the Inkovu (N4 Westbound) and Penguin (N4 Eastbound) gantries, which was nicely slotted in on the N4, east of Pretoria (already tolled). I did locate Ugaga on the N12 which is visible in the current aerials, but that was also not flagged.
Based on this map, the test gantry seems to be the one located at Gosforth Toll Plaza.
I really need to get feedback from Sanral on the last 3 to go live.
I drove the N4 from Witbank to PTA this Saturday and I have to be honest, I didn’t see any gantries on the N4 at all. Are they not including the Bakwena Tolls as they now seem to recognise SANRAL e-tags?
EDIT: I see the link Carel provided shows otherwise. :?
I am willing to edit the e-toll roads so that the app will let us choose to route on them or not by changing that setting. However, I’m not a level 3 editor, therefore I can’t… (and I can’t edit some other roads for the same reason.)
Carel, can you do the edits for us all?
TNKS!
Hi FierEl,
I’m pretty sure the toll roads should all be up and running as well as correctly marked. If you know of a segment or two that’s not correct feel free to request an unlock or post it here.
Kyle
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There are a number of sections of untolled highway that are currently marked as “toll” (e-toll style), and a few sections where there is a e-toll gantry that are not marked as tolled. Around the airport on the R21 south, there are sections that are marked as “TOLL” which are not, but a few of these are locked. It is possible to travel from Voortrekker Road to the Airport toll free, but waze does not know this. I think some people have marked entire highways, and not marking only the section of the road under the gantry.
I fixed the missing toll at putfontein on the N12, but I’m not going to try and fix it anymore – I have work to do. I need to be a super dooper editor, and I’m not – however, the big rush of traffic is coming, and the map is not ready. I’ve bent my number plate, fuzzed the edges of the text, but I would still like a simple option that does not attract any attention of the evil private taxation agency while they figure out how they will bilk us.
According to sanral, the map of their hateful toll gantries is this:
http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~map/map