Some freeway exit ramps, especially in regional areas, don’t include the name of the road on the ramp, but only have the route number and the destination(s). The wiki section about naming ramps doesn’t explicitly say what should be done here.
For example, an exit sign might say “C407 - Berwick” without saying “Clyde Road” anywhere on it, and the smaller sign once on the exit ramp might then say C407, followed by the destinations on the left and right, but still not stating the name of the road itself.
Should the road name be included in the exit ramp’s name anyway? Or, if it forks later on into two turning ramps, should the road name be excluded from the first ramp, then included on the turning segments?
I suggest we add this to the wiki page, so that it is clearly explained what to do in these situations.
But it does. In the section for naming without a fork it says, 'If there is no fork along the off ramp, then place the destination(s) on the off ramp itself. Example: “Exit to C422 - Koo Wee Rup Rd to Pakenham / Koo Wee Rup”
For ramps with a fork:
'[i]For the segment before the fork:
“Exit to A1 - Princes Hwy”.
For the segments after the fork:
“A1 - Princes Hwy to Wollongong”. (e.g. for one fork)
“A1 - Princes Hwy to Sydney”. (e.g. for the other fork)[/i]’
There’s one on my todo list that does exactly that. The ramp is named “To Murray Valley Hwy” and TTS says “Exit onto Murray Valley Hwy.” The problem is that the road sign doesn’t mention the road name, it says “B400 - Yarrawonga.” As the first post says, there are a lot of regional ones like that.
All of the ramp names used here include the name of the road. It assumes that either the name of the road must be included even if not present on the sign, or it assumes that the road name is stated on the sign for each of these exits. It’s not explicit about which option it uses.
The USA wiki page states something quite similar to ituajr’s response:
TTS assumes that the road name is included. It will say, “Exit onto <roadname>.” To use the example above if “Murray Valley Hwy” was not there it would say “Exit onto Yarrawonga” which doesn’t make sense. As a driver in these situations as long as I hear “… to Yarrawonga” and the sign says “Yarrawonga” I’m happy.
I had that very thing happen to me recently. I was told to turn right onto Box Hill.
Wut??
(Note to self: Next time use an example that’s easier to type)
Fair enough - but if the sign only says the destination and nothing else, then it would be best to include the road name too.
Your example, however, includes the route number as well. So if you named it “to B400 to Yarrawonga”, the TTS would say “Exit onto B400 to Yarrawonga”, which makes sense. That would also match exactly what the sign is stating.
I do agree that if the destination is the only thing present on the sign, with no road name and no route number, then including the road name should be done so it doesn’t result in a confusing spoken direction.
Is the TTS saying “on to” or “onto”? If it was “on to”, the this could be because the TTS might work like <Keep/Turn/Exit><Left/Right>on<Street name>. If it was “onto”, it might create the double to with street names that start with to.
The “turn right onto Box Hill” might have actually been “turn right on to Box Hill”, which would then mean that the first scenario is correct and that the departure segment was called “Box Hill” and the angle departure angle was large enough to give turn instruction. It would be interesting to see whether dropping off the “to” and leaving the segment called “Box Hill” would cause the TTS to say “Turn right on Box Hill”.
Assuming that it is “turn right on”, calling this segment “Exit to Box Hill” would not be appropriate. The TTS might then say to “turn right on Exit to Box Hill” and it also might not be considered an exit. Would calling the segment “Elgar Rd to Box Hill” work (still assuming that it is “Turn right on”)? If it does, it might mean that we should in fact include road names if they aren’t signed. In the case of Elgar road, it is signed:
In the case of “To Murray Valley Hwy”, it provides further indication that the TTS is saying “Exit left on” followed by the segment name “to Murray Valley Hwy”. As the sign says B400 and Yarrawonga, calling the segment “B400 to Yarrawonga” might solve the issue.
Well that was interesting. Waze freezing, B-doubles in front, behind and alongside while merging, cars tailgating at 110kmh, most eventful short trip I’ve had in a long time!
So, I headed for the intersection used in previous examples here where the ramp names don’t conform to current wiki guidelines. Heading west on NM31 I put in a destination that would exit onto B400. Five minutes away TTS said, “Go straight for five minutes to Murray Valley Highway.”
Approaching the exit it said, “Exit to the left onto Murray Valley Highway.” I then turned into that little segment off the ramp to Plunketts Rd where there is a handy place to stop and re-enter my destination to take me back the way I came.
Heading back towards the ramp it said, “Turn left onto B400 Murray Valley Highway.” (This is where Waze froze and I had to continue on, turn around, come back and start again.) On the second attempt the instruction at the entry ramp to the freeway was, “Turn right onto Hume Freeway to Albury.” I ignored it and went straight on where there is a roundabout to turn around and come back.
Approaching the next ramp the instruction was, “Exit to the left onto Hume Freeway to Albury.” (Next I encountered the three B-doubles while merging so TTS could have been swearing at me and I wouldn’t have noticed.)
In summary TTS always preceded the ramp name with “onto” (Edit: or ‘to’ in the case of the five minute warning). Where the ramp name started with the word ‘To’ it left that word out. This is consistent with other behaviour I have observed and if typical means that having the word ‘To’ at the start of a ramp name makes no difference to what TTS says. I think including it looks better on the map though.
Incidentally none of the BGS have the name “Murray Valley Hwy” on them anywhere.
Yep, I’ve seen consistent behaviour in the naming leaving out “to” for its’ substitution of “onto”. That prompts the question, is a “to” preceding an exit destination even necessary when TTS applies an “Exit onto” instruction, irrespective of “to”?
I think it’s better to retain “to” on the exit ramps for display on the screen. To me at least, it makes more sense to have the directions when turning onto exit and entry ramps labelled as “to Example Road” on the screen rather than implying that you’re exiting or turning directly onto the road.
I had a similar thing today as well. It sounds like the default turn instruction is <Turn type> <Direction> onto <Street Name>. If the street name starts with "to ", the TTS may change the “onto” to “on” and then say the “to <Street Name>”. As they both sound the same, it is hard to tell.
I think that I now see where Geoff was coming from last night, so having a ramp without “to” may not be a good idea after all. I don’t think that leaving the segment as “To <Street Name>” is ideal as it might be a similar situation to at-grade connectors where it suggests to leave the name ticked as None. I also don’t think that having “to <City Name>” is useful either.
The wiki already says:
Would it help to change it to start with “to A1” so that it shows up visually? That would mean that the user would see “to Elgar Rd to Box Hill” in Keith’s case. However, is that just adding unnecessary clutter on the screen as it sounds the same for with the TTS?
It’s probably arguable as to whether or not it is needed but I think it’s helpful in situations like this where what you hear matches what you see on the sign.
For those signs C377 to Beechworth and either C377/C381 to Chiltern or C377 to Chiltern (depending on preference for shared routes) might work. Is that sign on the approach to a fork or is it on a T-intersection?
In most Motorway ramps, the suburbs are also given on the Big Green Signs, so not including that could be confusing to motorists. I’d say they should have as close as possible to the sign instruction. It’s definitely useful.
I said that in relation to Ituajr’s earlier mentioning of a user being told to make a turn to Bathurst. By including the name of the road that the driver is heading onto as well as the city name instead of just leaving it with the city could help to reduce confusion
Is the consensus understanding that we name ramps: “to Example Rd to City” where:
Ramp naming has honestly perplexed me greatly. I’ve done my best to understand the wiki here, but I still think I’m doing it wrong. For example, the wiki says “Exit to C722 - Donnybrook Rd” but is that what we put in the road name, or do we put “to C722 - Donnybrook Rd” in the road name? The wiki on ramps desperately needs to be made more clear and explanations as to WHY we are doing it this way.
If I can’t understand this, what hope do our new users? :shock:
