There was a map error for this junction as someone had deleted a section of slip road to turn right onto Nelson Way.
I have since added this back into the map but been sent a message by a fellow editor stating the road I have added won’t connect to the A583 because it is level locked.
Can someone confirm/make changes.
Thanks,
James
Hi James
Did you have a look at link to the Wiki I PM’d you earlier this month? I noticed you’ve mapped a fair few car parks around Riversway 
Regards
Andrew
Andrew
I did and I have been correcting the car park issues throughout the area and also any that flag up on my error list.
Have you noticed a few others that I has missed which are overlayed on existing drawn areas?
Cheers
Sorry if I come across as pedantic but I’ve noticed you’d mapped quite a few car parks that don’t meet the criteria listed here and here.
My basic understanding is, if you can’t leave your car there and go elsewhere then probably best not to map them. For businesses with customer parking simply tick the ‘Parking for customers’ box under the ‘More info’ tab belonging to the business place mark.
When users search for places, they are presented with car parks close by as possible destinations. What we don’t want to happen is for users to be presented with private business car parks that aren’t related to the place they’re trying to get to.
…and then there’s the Parking Project. Chances are, if you map car parks, the powers that be will just come along and ruin your hard work anyway :roll:
Have fun.
Andrew
Andrew
Not at all. I’ll leave them be then lol
Hi James & Andrew,
I was ‘passing by’ the forum and, somehow, landed on this thread. There’s a lot to say and I hope you mange to get some things rectified before a L4 Editor gets involved.
Hello James and welcome to editing. I can see that you’re relatively new to all this and this junction was a, let’s say, ‘challenging’ place to tackle. I hope that, by now, you’ve taken Andrew’s good advice and read the relevant bit of the Wiki. Andrew’s link was good and you should also click through and read the UK Quick Start Editing Guide. This will give you a grounding and will be a good place to start.
Going back to your first post, why do you think the slip road off the A583 eastbound onto Nelson Way had been deleted? Perhaps it never existed? I can see a redundant node further to the east of your slip road at the throat of Nelson Way. If that segment had been in place, I think it might have been sufficient for Waze to navigate a route, although it doesn’t correspond exactly to the satellite view.
Imaging you’re driving from the west and want to go to one of the car dealerships. The Waze voice instruction would be “Turn right onto Nelson Way”. What more do you need? That instruction would be enough to alert drivers to look for the right turn opportunity and take the short slip road.
I would, then, argue that there is no need to draw in a separate slip road, which will only cause clutter on the mapping.
On that slip road you have drawn: I think it’s probably best to leave the slip road unnamed. Naming it “A583 Riversway” is not a good idea, as drivers coming from the west and needing to turn onto Nelson Way would only hear “Exit right onto A583 Riversway” - an odd instruction when they are already on that road. Also, your slip road is not connected to Nelson Way, as you have not allowed the turn from the slip road to Nelson Way. Until this is done, Waze will not use this road in navigations.
Now turning to the short segment of Nelson Way running north to join the A583. You have had to make this segment one-way, to accommodate your drawing in of the slip road. Single-carriageway roads are only shown as roads with two separate lanes when there is a particular routing problem to overcome. I don’t think that this is one of them. Again, you have not allowed the turn onto your newly-drawn segment from the rest of Nelson Way, so this road too would not be used by Waze to navigate a route.
In short, I would consider removing your newly-added slip road, returning the northernmost segment of Nelson Way to a two-way road, restoring the junction of Nelson Way and the A583 to 90 degrees and asking a L4 Editor to very kindly make the connection to the A583 and remove the redundant nodes on the eastbound carriageway.
Finally, further along the A583 westwards, to where it joins the A5085 Blackpool Rd, I notice that you have drawn in two short segments connecting the two roads. Again, these won’t work as navigable roads as they are not connected to the Major Highways. Although there is no signage strictly forbidding their use, I think that these are intended solely for cyclists, for whom there is appropriate signage, Also you have sited two nodes on the A5085 too close together.
On a positive note and going back to the original location, consider the off-slip and on-slip between the A583 westbound and Nelson Way. Would these not be much neater if they joined at one node, as the overheads show the actual lanes to do? And perhaps you could do a bit of research to decide whether these slip roads should be named . . .
(As an aside, you might like to consider why a L5 Editor allowed a cycle path and walking trail to cross existing roads, contrary to good practice, why it is set to an elevation of -5 and why it is locked to level 5. If you do find out, please let me know, because I am baffled!)
Mike
Hi Mike, I spotted the Guild Wheel path and was quite puzzled - I was going to Google it to see what on Earth it was, then got side-tracked by something else… Apparently it’s a 21 mile “Greenway” that encircles the city of Preston, but this is an odd section to map. I can’t see any reason for it.
Andrew
The guild wheel is a major part of Preston and utilises a mix of purpose made cycle paths and roads.
Apologies for poking my oar in to an already busy thread.
As Andrew says the extra parking lot’s need to be removed. Although there’s been issues with the parking project, all those extra ones need to go.
Just to reiterate, parking lots for private business’ (car dealers, fast food outlets, etc), supermarkets and such don’t need to be mapped.
Only map public car parks and when you do so, try and add as many details as possible; Car Park name, street, cost, pay & display, etc.
Having had time to read you post properly, and on a desktop screen and not my phone I have deleted the sections of roads and surrounding car parks that aren’t public.
Now the roads are deleted, how will waze route from A853 to Nelson Way without a road linking them together?
Thanks
Hi James and Andrew
Yes, I googled it too - what an utterly bizarre and meaningless name this facility has. No doubt Prestonians will be completely familiar with it, but to outsiders, it’s gobbldegook which tells them nothing.
I would hardly think it is a “major part of Preston” James and in my opinion it has absolutely no place on a map intended for drivers, or at a pinch, cyclists. Like you, Andrew, I can’t see any reason for it and I am amazed that it has been allowed to meander across (or five levels under!) the existing road network.
Hi James,
What a relief to see that you’ve deleted all those car parks at business premises!
Andrew was right and there’s nothing to add to that, but there is an editing technique that you might find useful.
First, have a look at the ‘Place’ polygon for the Ribble Steam Railway at the end of Chain Caul Rd and click on the polygon. You’ll see a small round icon with (I think!) compass points in it. This is called the ‘Access point’ and when you draw a ‘place’ polygon it will be located right in the centre, as it is here. The Editor who drew this polygon has left it where it is, because it coincides with the car park. I’ll not discuss the rights or wrongs of including a car park in a ‘Place’ polygon, but in this case, there is no harm in it. The function of the Access point is to trigger a voice instruction, which in this case would be “You have arrived at Ribble Steam Railway”.
Now have a look at the Sunwin Renault Car Dealership and click on that polygon. You’ll see that the Editor has pulled the Access point out of the dealership’s polygon and into the Parking Lot Road going into the Renault car park. This serves a dual purpose. First, it identifies a specific road to which Waze will navigate if you enter “renault preston” into the search box. Then, after you have come off the roundabout and turned right off Admiral Way, you will be informed “You have arrived at Sunwin Renault Preston”. Secondly, and equally important, if the Access point is left inside the Place polygon, it could be closer to another road from which you cannot get to the business. In this case, there is a possibility that Waze will navigate you westbound, past Nelson Way and tell you that you have arrived and expect you to park on Riversway and climb over the fence to get to the dealership, because the Access point was nearer to the A583 than it is to any other road!
Click on the other car dealership polygons and you’ll see that the Editor has done a similar thing with all of them. Have a read of the Wiki to see what the parameters are for moving the Access point of a Place polygon.
I’ve mentioned it, now I’ll get onto it - Nelson Way. I’m pleased to see that you’ve removed the unnecessary slip and confused throat to Nelson Way, but alarmed to see you’ve also deleted the most important bit - access from and onto the A583 Riversway. I know that my mails are long and you may loose the impetus to breathe, but I think it was pretty clear when I wrote in the eigth and last paragraph on Nelson Way:
Please redraw the road you have deleted (NOT the unneccessary slip road) running due north between the two curved access roads on and off the A583 westbound, so that it joins the existing node on the A583 eastbound. It’s pretty important this is done really soon as this turn is already showing as impossible because you’ve deleted the road!
Also, don’t forget this:
Although I didn’t say in as many words, I think it would be best if you deleted these segments.
As if that wasn’t enough, I noticed a red road when I was zoomed out of this area. The colour is because one of the scripts I use highlights anomalies - you might like to investigate scripts in the Wiki - they can be invaluable. Red indicates an unconfirmed road. As long as it is unconfirmed it will not be included in the mapping. The road is an unnamed Private road off Lea Rd. Personally, I would delete it, as I cannot see any reason to include it, but if you want it to appear on the mapping, you must include a ‘Street’ and ‘City’, or tick the ‘None’ boxes and click ‘Apply’ for the road to be confirmed. Also, you have not allowed turns into or out of this road, which is also the case for The Shires, which you also added to the mapping and is adjacent.
It would have been quicker (much much quicker) to do this work myself, rather than writing all this, but then you wouldn’t learn anything and it’s outside my editing area anyway!
Please mend Nelson Way as a priority and get a L4 Editor to make the connections - perhaps PhantomFlanFlinger who’s joined in this debate.
Happy Editing!
Mike
and another editor joins the debate
If Permalinks were used it might make things a little clearer to all involved as to which segments and Places should be edited / deleted.
The guide wheel is purpose built for Cyclists.
I drove the junction in question today and as I thought, it didnt want to direct me from A583 to Nelson Way as there was no road for Waze to direct me across!!
I print screened my phone to show it sending me straight on to do a U-Turn which would be impossible at the junction of Pedders Lane/Riversway.
Screenshot_20161123-105301 by James Green, on Flickr
I permalinked the original post.
Section of Nelson Way re-added to the map.
Someone needs to check the turning points are correct.
Would if I could, but my editing rights stop a mile to the east. :lol:
:lol: :lol:
Right. Today’s saga.
girds up his loins (whatever that means) and puts a hard hat on top of his hard hat
So, James, even locals can’t get it right - it’s Guild Wheel - I can type it now as if i knew what it meant and is for cyclists and walkers, as I understand it. And again, it might have amused someone for a bit, but cycle paths have no place whatsoever on an app intended for drivers. It only shows as a thin grey or brown line on the phone, but it clutters the map and not even cyclists using Waze can navigate along it, because Waze ignores cycle paths in navigations . . .
You go on to tell me:
Yes I know! I told you this! You broke it! I specifically asked you not to do what you did. It’ll take some time before this section is restored to what it should be and to what it always was.
Still, I see that you’ve drawn it back in, so thanks for that. Thankfully, you joined your re-drawn road to the existing node, so you have inherited the turn permission from Nelson Way onto Riversway, which was connected by a L6 Editor in July. So here’s the good news:
YOU NO LONGER NEED A L4 EDITOR TO MAKE THE CONNECTION
but (that’s a big but) you need to keep testing this junction a few days from now when the International Mapping is updated (you can check when this is yourself, using the ‘Status’ key bottom left of the WME screen) that you no longer get the ludicrous mis-navigations on your screen shot that Waze users will get until the mapping is updated. It’s vital that you keep checking this until everything is back as it should be.
Now for the bad news:- You write -
Indeed. And why not you? Why do you leave roads like this? The segment of Nelson Way that you have redrawn has its turn permissions disallowed. The arrows coming into and out of this segment are red, making this road unusable in navigations. If that wasn’t bad enough the turn from the A583 eastbound into Nelson Way is also disallowed. You posted a screenshot of the damage you had done to the road system here, but your redrawing of the road is worthless without those turn permissions being made. I am getting increasingly frustrated because I cannot edit in this location and repair the errors. Can I ask that you make these changes as soon as you read this?
In the same area, I have given up asking that you tidy the off and on slips from the A583 westbound by joining them to the same node and deleting the redundant one . . .
I see that you have still not deleted the roads joining two major highways as I did here some days ago:-
Will you please delete these roads?
And then, will you please attend to these roads, as I asked you to yesterday?
As if that isn’t enough, I noticed today another unconfirmed road off Lea Rd, opposite Ainsdale Dr. Again the road is bright red, showing it is unconfirmed and needs Street and City applying (it’s Brook Pl and the city is Preston - there, I’ve saved you some time on Street View!) Again, turns into and out of this road are disallowed, so until these things are rectified, it cannot be used in navigations.
Have a look at nearby Nelson Cr too and see if you can work out what’s wrong there . . . Then go back to Brookfold Ln in Hythe and review that . . . Having mentioned Access points yesterday, have a look at the Blackpool Pleasure Beach South, which you edited a couple of days ago and consider the placing of the Access point to that car park . . . Unfortunately, I could go on . . .
When you’ve put these things right, I’d take a break from editing and do a bit of catching up on the Wiki because, quite honestly, from car parks to slip roads to newly-drawn roads there are too many errors. A good place to start would be the Editing Manual with its links to other resources and from it, I think you find the page on Creating and Editing street segments of particular interest. Build up your skills gradually, James - other Editors will try and help where they can. And perhaps don’t try editing Major Highways for a bit, where mistakes can be disruptive and not just an annoyance.
Mike
If anything, I think you should have a sit back and check the tone of your posts. This is meant to be a volunteer position and a community. Not a slanging match of “you have done this, you’ve broken this, locals can’t get it right”.
I was trying to fix an issue where someone before me had deleted the road, I drew in what I thought was correct and asked for help. Not a lecture.