Here is the only one I could find quickly.
Hi all,
I’m new here, using Waze for about a week now, and after all the outages over the last week, I finally had a chance to get my feet wet with a little editing around the neighborhood here in South Brunswick while the system catches up with the other drives I’ve done over the last week. I’ve noticed that the maps here in central and northern New Jersey could use some help (it looks like a really nice job has been done with the interstates and other limited-access roadways; way to go! 
). I’ve always been fascinated by maps, signs, roads, where they go - a bit of a road geek if you will - and I’m thrilled to have found a way to contribute to something productive with that.
I’m considering applying for AM for an area here in central NJ - perhaps Middlesex County for starters and then maybe expand outward as needed as I pick up some experience. I’ve lived in New Jersey for 33 years now (driving around for the last 16 of them) and I’d like to think that I’m pretty familiar with NJ roadways and all the idiosyncrasies they bring to the visiting driver (Jughandles, anyone?)
I’d like to weigh in on the road classifications discussions and see what everyone else thinks, but here’s my $0.02:
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Any road with purely limited access (meaning no store driveways or anything like that) should be of freeway type, regardless of whether it is an Interstate, a US route, or a state route. All interstates, by their definition should be of freeway type. I don’t know of any business loop interstates in New Jersey (with the green shield marker).
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There are 2 types of US routes - those with 1 or 2 digit numbers and those with 3 digit numbers.
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1- and 2-digit US routes are primary national highways and should almost always be of primary highway type. The only time I would demote them to the minor highway type is when improvements to the road have been ceased because it has been superseded by another nearby road. An example of this kind of demotion would be US-9 from Lakewood south, where through traffic is routed onto the Garden State Parkway instead.
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3-digit US routes are spur and loop routes from the US route identified by the last 2 digits of the 3-digit route. Many of these should probably be minor highways, except for maybe some sections that make nice connectors between 2 bigger roads. These sections promoted to major highways could be 2-lane roads, but should be improved enough to bypass town centers maintain higher speed limits along the entire section. US-206 south of the Turnpike comes to mind for this kind of promotion, as well as between I-287 in Bedminster and I-80 near Netcong.
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Like US routes, there 2 types of state routes: 1- and 2-digit routes and 3-digit routes
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1- and 2-digit routes are primary routes through the state and should probably be either of major highway type or minor highway type, depending largely on how improved the road is and things like how well it bypasses town centers to maintain a high speed limit, how much turning traffic there is in through lanes, pedestrian traffic, parked cars in urban neighborhoods, whether there is a better parallel route nearby, etc. Roads like SR-3, SR-4, SR-17, and SR-31 between US-202 and I-95 all strike me as major highways, while smaller roads like SR-27, SR-28, or SR-35 (divided, but paralleled by the Garden State Parkway) all strike me as minor highways.
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3-digit state routes with numbers between 100 and 499, using the circular, or rather oval state route shield, are all loop, spur, or some other connector type road - except for SR-208 in Bergen County, which is totally a major highway; I’m not sure what’s up with that, but I’m sure there’s a good story in there somewhere. Other 3-digit routes with the oval state route shield, unless they’re a completely limited access freeway a la SR-440 in Middlesex County, are probably mostly minor highways.
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County routes come in 2 different flavors: 3-digit routes whose first number is a 5 and (in most counties) 3-digit routes whose first number is 6 or higher (though I have yet to see a 700 or 800 series route marker)*:
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Routes with a county route marker with a 3-digit number that starts with a 5 (the so-called 500 series) are actually an extension of state routes, but even though many can be followed from end to end across the state, they are often just routed over unimproved local collector roads. In some more rural parts of the state where there is no nearby better road to take between two minor or better highways, these roads should probably be of type minor highway, but if there’s a better nearby through road, these roads should probably just be of type primary street. In more urban neighborhoods, these roads are almost always of type primary street.
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County routes with a number 600 or higher (1- and 2- digits routes with a county route marker in Bergen and Monmouth Counties) are actually true local county roads and should almost always of primary street type. Occasionally there may be a well improved section that connects 2 minor-or-better highways and should probably be of minor highway type, but those are few and far between.
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Local municipal roads that are striped but have no numbered marker should probably generally be of type primary street. These roads typically do not have things like stop signs at every intersection and may have a somewhat higher speed limit, though they may contain other traffic calming tools like speed bumps if they go through a residential area with a low speed limit.
*Bergen and Monmouth Counties do not subscribe to the 600+ rule for local county roads but instead use 1- and 2- digit numbers on a county road marker. Again, I’m not sure what’s up with that, but I’m sure there’s a story in there somewhere…
Welcome to Waze! We’ve done the exercise for some other states, but not for NJ yet – we should look at the functional classification maps from NJDOT to see if we can just follow them:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/roadway/fcmaps.shtm
Theoretical mapping would be something like:
NJDOT Classification = Waze road type
Rural Interstate = Freeway
Rural Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Rural Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Rural Major Collector = Primary Street
Rural Minor Collector = Primary Street
Rural Local = Street
Urban Interstate = Freeway
Urban Freeway/Expressway = Freeway (or Major Highway)
Urban Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Urban Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Urban Collector = Primary Street
Urban Local = Street
Can people look at their home areas and see how far off this would be? We will NOT agree on everything, but we want whatever is easiest to cover the vast majority of roads.
I find looking at the Union County functional map that I don’t agree fully, but I can see the logic behind it with each DOT classification forming a network that ties into the others.
Remember, we need to consider function as well as (and maybe above) physical form. If the only road between two major cities is a cow path and people do indeed use it, then it may indeed be a “Major Highway” although it doesn’t look like what we imagine when we hear the term.
Waze will take care of speed issues with the historical data. We could theoretically make every single road a freeway and it would (mostly) work just fine. The road classifications mostly help the routing engine have an easier time looking for routes – the longer you are going, the less it will consider the “lower” road classes.
Oh, and on the 3 digit US routes – what you say is true, but keep in mind that the parent routes for things like 202 and 206 are 600 miles and 6 states away. Therefore being a spur is basically a non-issue in these cases and these roads should be examined on their own merits alone.
I saw that link before and totally agree with the link; I mean, why not go by the way the roads were actually designed? I’m sure there will be some exceptions, but for the most part, that should be a good guide.
I think I’m going to start with an area that includes Middlesex and Monmouth Counties, since I’m pretty familiar with both and go out from there.
I get the impression that the jury is still out on highway naming, since it’s not quite apparent yet what kind of naming conventions will produce shields, and since alternate road name editing is not yet supported in the WME. I have noticed, however, that the current iPhone client will produce shields for US routes marked “US Hwy 1” for example, and for state routes marked “State Hwy 3” for example. However, if we put an N,S,E, or W suffix on it to indicate the direction of a divided highway, the shield does not show. Further, the problem here is that the navigator will describe the road as a highway, which is syntactically incorrect in NJ; our numbered roads are all called routes since many are just marked out over old urban streets and we don’t want to misleading imply that a numbered route is necessarily a fast way of getting somewhere by automatically calling it a highway.
Maybe we should just leave the names of the numbered roads the way they are for now until all this naming/shield dust settles? I do however, think that it’s more important for the navigator to use the word “route” instead of “highway” than it is for shields to show up on the map. But in the meantime, maybe we should focus on roads just being of the correct type for now. I have noticed here in central NJ that there’s lots to be done, especially in identifying primary streets - since I guess the base map doesn’t do that. I’ve found that the lack of primary streets being defined in large parts of the state completely messes up routing in the Waze client, as it thinks neighborhood through roads are just little subdivision streets and will often route you way out of your way instead.
Yes, I’d recommend mot making wholesale changes to shielded road names until Waze figures out what they want to do with shields.
As Jon said, don’t worry about changes to highway names until we know what is going on. In the mean time you can make things consistent to make future changes easier. For example, if a road is mostly “US Hwy x” but now and then it is just “Hwy x”, go ahead and make it all “US Hwy x”.
Primary Street was not identified from the base map as you guessed. For routing, everything we’ve been told by Waze staff says that Primary Street is NOT preferred over Street and it is just a visual thing. The community’s own testing does show that Primary has slightly higher default average speed though. But once real data is collected, that advantage should disappear. In theory 
The improvements you see MAY just be from fixing turns and more people using Waze in the area. Or Primary has more meaning than we’ve been told.
Everything has been fine up until last few weeks that there were many changes to many of the roads in Essex county and nearby counties.
I also saw this post that Weeezer14 put here (and some other place):
My issue is this. If we are starting change all NOW just because of the above description from NJ DOT than that’s fine and let’s change all.
But what I see is done recently in the past few weeks logically don’t make sense to me.
Here is why: Part of Bloomfield Ave (CR 506) (in Fairfield section) is 45MPH, until you reach Caldwells, speed goes down to 35 and 25MPH. (in real time a lot less with all the traffic lights etc). Yet, NJ DOT marked as Rural Principal Arterial, that is Major Hwy based on what’s I saw discussed in the forum. Currently entire Bloomfield Ave marked as Minor Hwy. It should be at best part Minor, Part primary street.
Also, Roseland Ave (CR 527) marked as Minor too but speed limit is 25 to 35MPH. In addition Roseland Ave not connected to Any Major Hwy either.
Let’s assume above is correct: Both CR506 and CR527 is Minor Hwy, then CR611 (Eagle Rock Ave) and CR613 (Passaic Ave) should be at least Minor Hwy too NOT primary streets as they marked recently. Both CR611 and CR613 are long, much higher speeds and Eagle Rock actually connects to Major highway.
Again, I’m OK to follow this NJ DOT list but these recent changes didn’t improve anything at all. We shouldn’t just do half according to the list and the other according to IDK, what.
Keep in mind that, if we change these according to NJ DOT we are going out of Waze’s normal description and will conflict with other nearby states.
What are you thoughts?
These roads should all be minor highways based on them having 500-series route markers, which are actually state routes. Speed limits are actually only a partial factor; being able to identify inter-county through routes by looking at the map is, IMHO, more important. My understanding is that minor highways can be anything from a divided highway with jug handle ramps to surface city streets, as long as there is some kind of route/highway marker to follow.
The 600+ series county roads* are actually inter-town county roads within a single county and should probably be primary streets based on only statewide routes being minor highways and above.
*Bergen and Monmouth Counties do not use the state-standard 600+ system for local county roads. Instead, in those two counties, county roads with 1- or 2-digit numbers should probably be primary streets based on being local inter-town through routes.
Again, if we are going to follow NJ DOT and classify them accordingly than some of those 600 series has to be minor Hwy. Actually, CR613 should be part of minor and major hwy based on NJ DOT Map with correlation to this classification by Weeezer14:
“NJDOT Classification = Waze road type
Rural Interstate = Freeway
Rural Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Rural Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Rural Major Collector = Primary Street
Rural Minor Collector = Primary Street
Rural Local = Street
Urban Interstate = Freeway
Urban Freeway/Expressway = Freeway (or Major Highway)
Urban Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Urban Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Urban Collector = Primary Street
Urban Local = Street”
My point is that we cannot just mark all 500’s one way and all 600 one way. I think Speed limits, and factors has to be considered.
I do not agree that we should do that since I can go 40-45MPH and access to Major Hwy with some of these 600 series and they are marked as primary and on the other hand those 500 series I mention have speed limits as 25-35 MPH, a lot of lights, residential etc.
Also, according to the NJDOT, those 600 series are minor Hwy and part of Passaic is Major hwy.
Consistency and function is what I’m after.
Currently, the way these are setup, they not consistent.
In addition, Weeezer14 marked this road as Minor Hwy (Route 10):
Other roads attached to it are primary streets.
If we are going to change according to NJDOT, than all has to change and not some. Most of us should be on the same page and aware of to this.
I also would like to see other Waze champs to look at the road classification from NJDOT and / or Just Essex County. Along with the below Classification from Weeezer14 that he mentioned beginning of this forum.
Please tell us what you think.
I don’t agree with using the spec documents at all. I used to, but I’ve since been directed to better documents, such as the state GIS maps. While the spec documents show how roads were initially intended to be used, they don’t show how roads are actually used, which I believe is a major shortcoming to be useful for Waze.
New Jersey has a lot of state routes that have had many improvements done to them to make them good, fast through routes. Many of these came before the US highway system, and as such, the federal government never took them over. That doesn’t, however, mean they shouldn’t qualify as major highways. These improvements include a center divider to prevent random left turns, limited intersections, and dedicated left turn lanes/signals or jug handle ramps. SR-10, west of the Livingston Circle, is one of these routes. Other examples are SR-23 (north of US-46), SR-4 (east of SR-208), SR-208, SR-17 (north of SR-3), SR-15 (north of I-80 to the Sussex County Line, where it becomes a freeway), SR-33 (between Freehold and the Turnpike), SR-35 (between Middletown and Sayreville), SR-36 (north of Highlands and west of Long Branch), among others. Also important is that the entire route of each of these routes does not have to be the same type, but where it does change, there should be some kind of equal or better connection to avoid the “patchwork” effect that we don’t seem to want.
Similarly, I don’t agree that minor highways necessarily have to be fast roads. Rather, I see them as any road that is part of a statewide network, including the 500-series county roads, which are in fact state routes. They aren’t necessarily fast, and they certainly can go into dense urban areas, but usually as avenues or boulevards, and will typically have some sort of, albeit limited, turn assistance at least at busy intersections, including turn lanes, partially protected lefts (like the ones that show for a few seconds before the light generally turns green), and left turn restrictions out of streets/driveways close to such intersections. They can also serve as collectors to better highways from entire towns that do not have direct access to those better highways - towns such as Caldwell, Verona, or Montclair, for example.
Primary Streets, in my mind, are a step lower than that. These are roads that serve as collectors between smaller neighborhoods of city streets (subdivisions) and the various types of “highways.” The county-wide 600+ series routes, to me, are excellent candidates for such road types. As are other even more local intra-town routes that appear to serve as collectors by spanning across subdivisions or crossing rivers, creeks, railroad tracks, or freeways, or other obstacles a regular subdivision street would probably just end at. Primary streets also typically have full access to connecting highways (major or minor), typically with a traffic signal.
Can anyone confirm that Waze actually does (or does not) consider the various road types like this? I’ve heard before that road type is not nearly as important as the speed metrics that Waze tracks of people actually driving on the roads, but after identifying the lesser roads in Middlesex, Monmouth, and Union Counties like this, I am absolutely certain I’ve seen navigation routing improve by leaps and bounds around here, especially to/from places that are not close to any major highways or freeways, and consequently, I would like to work toward using that around the entire state.
GIS maps from NJDOT certainly better. It does make a little more sense now, but there are other issues. All roads needs to be change now if we were to follow this -which I’m OK with- as long as other comment and agree upon. This will be a big overhaul and we would need few high ranked editors and perhaps Champs give us a hand.
That maybe, but do you considered street faster than highway or major highway. I might me wrong but if not all cases, in most cases higher class roads should be faster (that was my logic). Hence, Freeway would be faster than Major and Minor Hwy as well as Major and Minor should be faster than Primary and streets (unless, of course you are in traffic in LA)
Also, CR613 (Passaic) runs all the way from Livingston, passing Roseland, Caldwells, Fairfield Totawa, Little Falls to reach Rt 46 and I-80, Yet it is just a primary street (even with 40+ speed limit properties). On the other hand Roseland Ave, about 1.75 mile long with much lower speed properties marked as higher grade road. Obviously, that is what I’m having a issue with.
I’ve read most of the discussion regarding these way back when Mapcat and other Champs’ discussions. It’s very subjective topic where there are many difference in points.
There 3 things I would like to point out:
1- Assuming, we all agree with this GIS map from NJDOT website, we need to get most of the NJ editors to focus on changing all these roads, and make sure those changed are good. Again, I’m OK with this as long as we are all agree. We do not one some are one way and some are other.
2- We need to consider how this GIS map from NJDOT website spec affect other nearby states. We need to look into that. We don’t want to follow something completely different than everybody else.
3- Since, Waze is sectioned US into regions and Jondrush is our coordinator, let him take a look at it. I also know Weeezer14 did a lot work here as well. I’m sure he can input as well.
Just further FYI, according to the criteria here:
SR-10, west of the Livingston Circle, qualifies for every major highway criterium listed except for the road having zillions of store driveways right alongside its driving lanes.
Both CR-506 and CR-527 qualify to be minor highways based on uniformly maintaining continuity across county lines (making them part of the statewide network), as well as being signed with markers that can be followed along the course of the entire route. Also, it is ok according to this wiki, for minor highways to zig-zag though neighborhoods along 2-lane city roads as long as they have these followable markers. I think the real question here is what’s more important, in terms of the objectives for Waze: the fact that these roads have county road style markers, or that these roads always maintain continuity across county lines throughout the entire state, making them part of the statewide route network.
Essex County CR-613 would generally qualify, according to the linked document as a primary street, since the document specifically mentions county roads being an ideal candidate for primary streets. It may continue as CR-613 into a bordering county, but that continuance is just part of a local agreement or coincidence, as opposed to a statewide policy, as seen in the 500 routes. I understand that some of these roads may have improvements that warrant them for a promotion to a minor, or even major highway if such a connection is needed and actually exists (Eisenhower Pkwy/CR-609 in Livingston and Roseland is a great example).
This article, even though just a Wikipedia entry, actually outlines the significance of the 500-series county routes from the others very nicely.
That being said, I totally support developing a statewide standard for New Jersey that should be adhered to for all areas of the state. I think it has a far better chance than a national or even regional standard since there is so much colloquial variance from state to state. Interstate and US routes should probably follow a national standard (that is still under debate, as far as I know) but lesser roads should be a little more flexible, as long as we’re consistent within each state.
Maybe we should post proposals for deviations from the general rules in the above link to this forum for comment before going through with them? I’m guilty of doing this myself in several places, and up until now I haven’t really heard much disagreement, so I just figured it was OK. But anyway, for this to work, we would also have to agree on one person to make any necessary executive decisions to close out the commenting period for any such proposal. We also have to agree to respect any such decision, even if it does not agree with our own personal position. Otherwise, it’ll just be debated forever like all the other unresolved issues nationwide.
Do we even know who the actively participating AM’s in all of New Jersey are?
I wouldn’t embark on any massive retyping of roads until Waze gets back to us on a rethink of how the routing engine interacts with road type. If they do what we discussed at the US meet-up, then road speed won’t matter and types can follow the highway hierarchy instead of functional classification. Take your time so as to not waste a bunch of people’s time.
As I said, I’m OK with the change as long as we are all agree and on the same page. I prefer all these to be consistent and not necessarily open to one’s digressions. I would hate someone else to come up and change things.
The example in my earlier post of a SR-10 being Minor Hwy is a perfect example of an inconsistency, that you are actually agreeing with me.
There are couple of concerns:
- Our wiki article you refer to regarding the road types states the following for a Minor Hwy:
I know…I know…I’m nit-picking here a bit.
- We need to make sure all NJ editors follow these new system as spouse to the alternative guidelines.
- How these road types changes affect routing? Or/and other states?
Also, the best place to start is to get in touch with Jondrush who is our region coordinator. I would elect him to put the last “period”. Once we have go ahead from him, I will get in touch with most of the NJ editors to help us and also be aware of this change.
We must update the NJ Wiki with this very simple rules:
A short explanation of CR’s and NJDOT’s PDF link
500 series: Minor Hwy
All other series: Primary Roads
Anything is not Primary: street, parking lot or private roads
I know a few AM. I will get in touch with them. Also, I’ll PM Jon to take a look at this too.
Thank you Jon,
I haven’t started anything yet…and of course we will wait. Right George?
Jon, do you have any idea as to when Waze will let you guys know?
Thanks
No.
Apparently it is a pretty major change in philosophy, requiring much massaging of maths and algorithms. 
Thanks a lot.
Ok.
As far as SR-10, I had to stop where the red ends when I was working with it because I was waiting for an expansion of AM rights. It took a little longer with recent changeover to self-managing of the US and also holidays overseas. I apologize for that, and will patch that up as soon as I can.
I’m ok with an NJ wiki. I’ve been thinking we could use one for a while. I just never got around to actually proposing something.