NY (will have hopefully) 3+4 =7 (the national standard)
Like I said, I don’t expect NOR will have a regional guidance any time in the near future. Every state has their own way of doing things that suits their states needs. While PA and NY are similar they are not the same.
Here’s my take on the guidance after reading previous replies.
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The 4+4 is in compliance with the national standard. 4+4 = >7. In fact, I would recommend 4+4 for NYS and NYC for the following reasons, some of which have been expressed by others.
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Most places I’ve edited extensively (which include four regions and about ten states) use 4+4. I expect that most editors new to NY and NYC are surprised by the 1+4+10 or 1+7 +7 and hence may close some reports prematurely.
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In my experience, if we’re going to get a reply at all, it’s usually very quickly after a reminder. Ten days is probably too long for most reporters to remember pertinent details.
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Many of us use URC+ or URCe and it’s inconvenient to change response days settings by region/state/city.
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If a report is valid, it’s probably not a unique experience. We would usually see multiple reports or additional reports if we close it a few days too soon (per the +10d guidance). There are some reports that affect a single destination and therefore affect few people; but if we haven’t gotten a response in eight days from those, the Waze community can survive the minor lingering problem.
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Less important than the above, 4+4 will halve the overall reporting time and reduce the “float” of in-process URs. That should improve our position in the national stats.
So, here’s my ballot for 1+4+4 (I hope I’m registered to vote).
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so does the 1-3-4 (7 days exact to match national standard)
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Agreed which is why we brought this proposal to 7 days from 14
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this proposal is 3 days for a reminder close at 7, no more 10+ day period
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there was no 4?
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we aren’t concerned about those who use scripts as we prefer you look closely at a UR not rely on a script to identify it for you.
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again this gets away from the 10 day+ period and brings us to 7 day period.
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again you missed this is a proposal for reminder at day 3 and close at day 7, no more 10-14 day period.
I think the revised guidelines are clear and helpful. I did have some suggested editorial changes (particularly for math nerds like me who notice that the two timelines didn’t match up correctly) – https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/Special:ComparePages?page1=User%3AJushag%2FNYS+UR+Guidelines+7&rev1=&page2=User%3ARussblau%2FNYS_UR_draft&rev2=
I’m satisfied with the proposed changes. Very happy to see that we are close to national guidance.
I didn’t miss that this is a proposal for 1 3 4. That’s perfectly in compliance with the USA guidelines which are very soft. Here’s what is said: “Once you add a comment or question to an Update Request that requires a response from the Reporter, it is recommended that you wait at least seven (7) days for a response” This is a recommendation, not a rule. Many states suggest a reminder after 4 days (or 3) which is consistent with the 7 day time. I agree that guidelines should not be adjusted to scripts. What I was really saying is that 1 4 4 is consistent with the guidance in other states where I edit. The scripts just help to reduce WME clutter by masking those URs that are in a waiting status (whatever the number ends up being). It’s easily turned off and on or changed so I don’t have a strong preference for 1 4 4 over 1 3 4. I think 1 3 4 is far better than 1 7 7 or 1 4 10. I also don’t care whether we term the first contact as day 0 or day 1. I don’t recall the USA guidance using either.
It’s worked for PA for over a year now so I say full steam ahead.
Thanks to Krzycholub and Spencer, we have discussed the 4/4 format vs 3/4 and are leaning towards it. Also George is pushing towards the regional standard though this may take longer as it requires all states to be on board. We appreciate everyone’s feedback thus far.
My experience over the last 4 years of editing is:
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Most people will not reply after 3-4 days, so waiting 7, and then a whole another 7, is a waste of time and highly inefficient. I have rarely seen a response more than a couple days after inquiry. If they care enough to reply, they will do so quickly.
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I’ve had more people say “I can’t remember” after just a few days, I can’t imagine them having mental clarity on Day 14.
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Reminders do work on occasion. So, a reminder process should remain in play.
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I agree with a process that ends within ~7 days. Add that up how you will, 3+4, 1+2+4, that part really doesn’t sway me one way or the other. Just wrap it up and move on.
My experience over the last 4 years of editing is:
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Most people will not reply after 3-4 days, so waiting 7, and then a whole another 7, is a waste of time and highly inefficient. I have rarely seen a response more than a couple days after inquiry. If they care enough to reply, they will do so quickly.
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I’ve had more people say “I can’t remember” after just a few days, I can’t imagine them having mental clarity on Day 14.
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Reminders do work on occasion. So, a reminder process should remain in play.
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I agree with a process that ends within ~7 days. Add that up how you will, 3+4, 1+2+4, that part really doesn’t sway me one way or the other. Just wrap it up and move on.
Just one more thing that nobody has mentioned in this discussion. When I first started editing in NYC, the 4+10 (or 7+7) was explained to me. The idea was that NYC drivers are more likely to be weekend drivers than in other parts of the country. The concept was to have the UR process cover two weekends to accommodate the possibly less frequent driving.
In my view, it’s most important to give a prompt initial response and a reasonable time to answer. 3+4 or 4+4 both do that. I don’t think the rare UR that may be closed before the reporter happens to see the response + reminder is a major problem as most real problems will have been reported more than once or have been temporary and OBE. And the recollection of details after two weeks may well be faulty.
The rare occurrence of reporters remembering events 14+ days is part of the reason we’re reducing this down to 1 week. The weekend warrior method was a idea from 2015 and technology and internet availability has grown since then. That mentality that users only see their notifications or emails when they drive no longer exists so we aren’t concerned about “Weekend Warriors” anymore.
I wasn’t advocating for the “weekend warrior” view. I just thought it was pertinent to the rationale of why 14 day response times were there in the first place. In fact, I’m in full agreement with what you just said.
Kudos to New York State. If Delaware agrees, then you may have pulled the NOR together on this.
Thanks for everyone’s input! As Renee said, the hope here is to adopt a broader NOR standard to make it easier for editors working on URs in our region to do so in a consistent manner. To that end, the 0/4/4 timeline has been suggested for NY (and the NOR), and the draft has been modified to reflect the 8 day total (already tried and true by 2 other states in our region). In addition, verbiage has been added alluding to the proposed NOR standard and that NY follows those guidelines. I also liked Russ’ inputs and didn’t hear any objections to his additions, so those changes have been rolled in as well. The new draft is here:
https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/User:Jushag/NOR_UR_Guidelines
Seeing as though we’re looking for a region-wide standard, any inputs from the other states in the NOR would be appreciated to help us settle on 1 standard.
Thanks!
Edit: Renamed the draft page for clarity.
One other thing to add here - the draft has New York state referenced because that is/was the current conversation. If (when? :)) this standard is adopted for the NOR, New York state will be removed and this section will live in the Northeast Wazeopedia page. Each state can link to the standard on their own page to avoid duplication. The main difference between the states will be the e-mail address to send follow up information to. This can be addressed in a couple of ways, the easiest being enumerating all of the 4 states’ e-mail addresses in a bulleted list in the NOR UR standard section of the NOR page.
That conversation is happening in the NOR forum
here
https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=569&t=279986#p1943005
Just for some closure on the current discussion of Update Request guidance/timeline - New York has adopted the NOR-wide UR guidelines, and the information is now on the New York State Wazeopedia page found here:
https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/New_York#Update_Requests
Thanks for everyone’s input during the process.
Will there be any other guidelines becoming region wide?
I don’t venture out of Long Island much (and heck my drives only sometime show) but it would be challenging to keep track of potentially multiple other state standards that are in the same region.