Please give you opinion on this new/adjusted Guideline
- Accept
- Reject
- Modify (Please explain in a post here)
0
voters
Suggest to change the wiki to this
My only problem with the Road Types page, is it specifically mentions it is for the USA, yet there does not seem to be a separate “international” version of the page (maybe the occasional country specific one).
Not sure the history and why USA was added to the page.
Should i create a version for Thailand on a separate page?
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I was really kind of hoping that someone would come along and say “HOM, you’re an idiot. Here’s the standard global road description page.”
Barring that, my preference would be to borrow the text from the two links, and modify to properly match Thailand, especially in the examples. Since US and Thailand differ so much on naming. Plus, Thailand does a lot of at-grade connectors on highway, and I suspect we may decide to localize the rules on when to use ramps vs AGC in the future.
Ok I will start to work on that, unless you prefer to do it?
Knock yourself out.
Alright, I have been combining some other wiki page information on Ramps and At-Grade-Connectors to create Thailand specific content.
First part is for the landing page.I have changed the heading from Ramps to Ramps vs. At Grade Connectors: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Benandjerry/thai_wiki/landing_page/ramps
Link to article on when to use a ramp: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Benandjerry/thai_wiki/road_types/ramps
The other 2 links go to pages in the Best editing practices, and the global wiki.
Opinions please!
IMHO, Team Thailand needs to think about “What is a ramp, and what is an at grade connector in a Thailand driving environment?”
Ramp vs. At Grade is to me, especially in Thailand, not about whether the roads are at the same grade or not, but the use of the stretch of road. Generally, this is most easily discerned by the length and geometry. Thailand certainly has the simple arcs that are what are thought of in most of the US scenarios driving existing wiki work on the subject. What Thailand has that the US doesn’t have mucm of (some, but it’s pretty rare) is what I would refer to “At grade ramps”. Some of these are what are called a Displaced Left Turn in the exceptions list for At Grade connectors. The others function almost exactly like a typical ramp, but do not necessarily have the grade difference. They do have long speed adjustment sections, are generally separated from the main road for a bit, and typically have a merge section. True “At Grade Connectors”, so me, are the ones where you are guided around and get out of the flow of the traffic of the road you left, but still do not have a genuine merge area.
That’s my take anyway.
But the crux of the difference between ramps vs. AGC’s, according to the page nominated as a global wiki (AGC), is “When traffic moves between two roads that are at the same grade, these connecting segments are not technically ramps to Waze (unless it falls into one of the Exceptions listed below).”
And further down in the article: “Although sometimes referred to as ramps, to Waze these are not ramps. Ramps in Waze should only be used for situations where two roadways have a grade separated intersection or if the situation matches one of the Exceptions listed below.”
Since the bulk of connections on Thai roads are actually at the same grade, that should be the basic deciding factor.
Of course there are exceptions (which we can list), but I think we should adhere to the general concept: AGC’s are at the same grade, ramps are not. Unless you have a strong argument to apply ramps rather than AGC’s?
My take is that most of the Thailand items that I have referred to as “grade level ramps” fall into the principals listed in those exceptions. Look at what the exceptions are addressing - not the specifics of the exception, as those are US scenarios.
I believe the Thai wiki should call out things such as it is seen in Thailand, and what are exceptions in the US are, in principle, standard on many Thai roads.
got some examples?
I tend to side on following the global guideline, unless we’ve got specific examples we can justify differing from.
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Benandjerry/thai_wiki/road_types/ramps
- Update the photos with examples in Thailand
- To me this still isn’t clear. I think you did a better job in your post above describing what is and is not a ramp, than you do on the example page.
- Do we have rest areas with ramps leading to them in Thailand?
I’m thinking you could probably combine the two proposed pages, and delete much of the text in Road Types/ramps.
I think a focus should be, on the exceptions. For instance, do the dedicated U-Turn lanes with deceleration lanes qualify as a MUTI, which per global guidelines should be a ramp? Does this only apply on mH+, or should this apply to normal streets and primary streets as well? (Wiki is not clear)
To be honest, the wiki proposals are texts taken from other wiki’s, not so much own writing. The better examples you like come from the AGC article.
Yeah, I just don’t like that the “global” page points to a “USA” page for a bunch of the rules. I hate pointing to a page that on the surface is US specific.
what i dont like is that for the exceptions it is not provided WHY they should be set to ‘ramp’.
They do give the reason (ish), just not where you’d expect it:
So in cases where there wouldn’t need to be (a lot of) text, such as the freeway u-turn, would seem just using road type should be ok.
Ok, wiki proposal has been revised/updated. Please have a look and provide us with comments,as well as suggested exceptions.
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Benandjerry/thai_wiki/landing_page/ramps
1 is already being worked on: the long ‘pacman/arno’ uturn for freeways.
I like the basic idea of keeping things brief and referring to global. I can’t think of other exceptions for Thailand-only – maybe we won’t end up a full numbered list for a while.
I have to say, the tentative list of exceptions in the global guidance has got me confused. (Those are all new to me. I won’t be editing at home on that score until it’s final.)
Ok, based on the conversation we had in slack, it looks like we are all on the same page with using AGCs on intersections of highways when the following is met:
- No grade change
- Those turning right must stop to turn (either due to light, or need to wait for break in traffic)
- There is no reason to name the connectors to give proper guidance
This seems to mesh with global wiki guidance, so no need to list it as an exception. However, I’d like to add some examples to the wiki of various highway intersections that don’t match the normal US or European configuration. So I will work on that, perhaps as an addendum to this section, or a new section.
Also, it appears we are on the same page that dedicated U-Turns are not considered a MUTI, and thus should be AGCs. While not an exception, we should probably mention either under ramps or the u-turn guidance that these lanes don’t qualify as MUTI in Thailand.
Agreed! Another page for you 