Trans-Canada highway

Map Editors Community Canada
1

To summarize the thread.
Make Trans-Canada Hwy ‘Freeway’ road type.
Primary name: Hwy 1
Alternate: Trans-Canada Hwy

Minor/Major Highways should be named:
Hwy # (H is capitalized followed by the ‘w’ and ‘y’ in lower case, followed by a number)
Not ‘Highway #’ or ‘HWY # (all caps)’.

Very few roads should be named a freeway in Canada. Currently, only ring roads (perimeter roads around a city), Hwy 1 (including the highways Hwy 1 splits into*), Hwy 2 and any highways with limited access (e.g. highways with no street lights and access is exclusive to ramps entrances) .

*There are highways that travel through some National/Provincial parks with frequent stops, reduced speed and undivided portions. These segments should be reduced to a Major highway until the speed increases, stops are minimized and the highway is divided again.

Hello everyone,
I’m finding that this highway is being handled differently in different regions of the country and was hoping on getting a global consensus on how we want the highway to be handled across the country. What I propose is naming it “HWY 1” and giving it the alternate name of 'Trans-Canada HWY". I’ve seen HWY1, Trans-Canada HWY and Trans-Canada HWY 1 being used across the country. Figure we should make it consistent.

Another thing I wanted to discuss, is what road type it should be. From what I’ve seen in the states (well, in North Dakota at least), state highways are of “freeway” road type. I’m not sure if I agree with using such a model for Canada as, aside from denser areas like Southern Ontario, which may be an exception, access to the highway is NOT limited access and there are many lights along the way, such as through small towns, etc. Its for this reason that I propose that we make it of Major Highway road type, unless the road travels though an area that only has limited access to the highway. Personally, 95% freeway type segments have been for ring roads exclusively, even though city planners fail to make them only limited access in a few areas. I feel that freeways are more so limited to urban settings. Again, this is only my opinion and I’m curious as to what others think. Just want to make everything consistent, to avoid editors switching things back and forth.
James

2

Hi James!

Thanks for the note. I think we need to be careful about applying the US rules too restrictively to Canadian roads. We simply do not have the same extensive Interstate system that they do.

That said, I do also think we need to look at what road types mean to Waze.

My understanding of the routing engine is that it will prefer the “higher” types, moving progressively lower until you get to the destination. Therefore, to discount the “Freeway” type simply because our beloved TCH doesn’t fit the definition greatly reduces Waze’s ability to route appropriately.

I would propose that we look at the Freeway definition as one that is a guideline for us – does a road meet most of these rules? If so, then it’s a freeway.

That could mean the road is divided, at a higher speed, has limited access (as in, not every road that comes to it actually intersects, at least not with both sides), but doesn’t use ramps for every junction. I think I just described the TCH from about Kamloops to Brandon, MB.

As for “Major Highway” – in the Prince George BC region, there are two major highways – Hwy 16 (the “Northern Trans-Canada”) and Hwy 97 (the primary north-south highway in BC). Both run right through town. I’ve upgraded their “official” route to “Major Highway” as this is important for travellers that are going through so as to not get routed off on a side street.

As for the naming, this too is important. That said, I hate all caps. “Hwy 1” is very much preferred over “HWY 1”… at least to me. I wonder which part is more important: the “Trans-Canada” or the “1”. I think we lose the number when we get to Ontario – it splits and becomes more than just one highway. Much like Hwy 16 is also dubbed the TCH through western Canada.

Perhaps we need to say:
Primary name: Hwy 1
Alternate: Trans-Canada Hwy 1

I would also propose we use the “Freeway” designation when the TCH meets most (though perhaps not all) of the US rules. It is a primary route and should be noted as such.

Also: when we come to agreement here, it should be documented in the Wiki page on Canada’s roads. There just isn’t much there yet, and this would be good to have for future editors.

3

I was under the impression that Waze treated Freeways, Major/Minor Highways all the same, it just appears differently on the map. I’m fine if we end up using a freeway for the Trans-Canada Highway, but I don’t want this to be our rational if what I said is true. That being said, I’d be fine to make it a freeway to differentiate it and its importance from all the other highways. I’d like to hear from others and what they have to say.

Yeah, I’ve placed a number of Highways within Winnipeg to optimize routing. Another editor feels that there should be MUCH more than I feel that is necessary and their basing their decisions on what the city classifies as city highways. I’m debating if I should remove far more and would like someone else’s opinion.

Yes it does in Ontario. It splits just west of Thunder Bay as well and turns into the 11 and 17.

See, I think the Alternate should just be “Trans-Canada Hwy”. I’m not sure if this is exclusive to Winnipeg, but we never say Trans-Canada Hwy 1 here. It’s either Trans-Canada Hwy or Hwy 1. I’m not sure if this varies across the country or not.

You make a good point about not having all caps in “Hwy”. I originally started making Hwy in all caps, but I to begun to prefer Hwy, with the last two letters not being caps. Unless anyone else objects, I think we should make this a standard.

James

4

My understanding of the way the routing works is that when the road is initially drawn by an editor, the type it is given is used for routing until the system gets enough data to determine the segments’ actual average speeds. That’s why they’re cookie crumbed for the first little while. After that, it doesn’t matter what type it is, the routing just uses what wazers have helped it gather. The only road types I have heard of having a penalty are private roads and parking lot roads, and those are for entry, not driving along. As such, the choice of type should be based on usage and local perception.

As such, I’d say that Hwy 1, Hwy 2 (at least between Edmonton and Calgary), and Hwy 16 should all be Freeways. On that note, James, if you have the ability to upgrade the short sections of Hwy 2 south of Leduc to Freeway, that’d be great. I don’t have the reach. :slight_smile:

I also think this because (at least up to a couple weeks ago) only Freeways show up at the outermost zoom levels. Now everything disappears very soon…

I’d agree to calling it “Hwy 1” with alternate “Trans-Canada Hwy.”

5

I guess I’ll have to read into it again tomorrow, but I was under the impression that everything you said was true, with the exception that a lower penalty was still applied to junction points that were of Highway/Freeway road type.

Yeah, Hwy 2 should defiantly be Freeway.

Yeah, I’m not sure why that problems exists. Wasn’t sure if I was the only one experiencing that or not.
James

6

I had changed highways 1 and 2 to freeway a little while ago (as far as my editable areas would allow anyway. If someone could finish the rest that would be great). However, I didn’t change them to freeways through smaller towns (Strathmore, Nanton, etc.) where the speed limit drops to 50 or 60. I considered changing them to freeway to keep it consistent, but I thought that the client would route through the town, when it is usually much quicker to bypass using range or township roads.
Also, regarding range and township roads. Some counties have different naming conventions for them. Range road xxx, range road xx-x and range xx - road x. Range xx-road x is technically the correct way they should all be written. My questions is, should we be keeping them all consistent by leaving them as displayed on the map (range road xxx) or changing them all to range xx-road x. Or the third option, marking them on the map as they are displayed in each respective county?
Any thoughts?

7

I would say that 16 should be freeway for much of its length too. I’ve not been past Elk Island to the east of Edmonton, but I think it warrants Freeway for much of its length - Edson and Hinton being notable exceptions, where it should stay Major Highway.

Should they, though, be Freeways through the national parks? The speed limit is lower, but more importantly, there’s a lot of stopping all over the place, especially in the mountain parks.

As to the rest of the highways, I’d say all the secondaries (500 and up) should be Minor Highways, and the primaries (1-100) should all be majors, except for the select few freeways we’ve been talking about.

doctorkb recently put Whitemud Drive in Edmonton to Freeway, I switched it back, but later came around. As such, should the Deerfoot in Calgary be a Freeway too?

It would be a major undertaking to rename those, and tricky to be consistent. I’ve only known them to be Range Road xxx, but if they’re named something different, then probably keeping consistent with signage would be best, especially if someone’s trying to navigate out in the country, they probably won’t know how the system works.

Anyone know if there are abbreviations for Range or Township that work in the TTS?

8

I’m on my phone right now, so will contribute more tomorrow, but also wanted to add that “Rg” is the official Canada Post abbreviation for Range (incidentally, don’t the street signs say “Rg Rd XXX”?). There wasn’t an entry for Township, however.

9

Their names on the map should match the style each particular county uses on their signs, but I would not make it a high priority.

Also we should (eventually) rename all Alberta highways from “xx Highway” to “Hwy xx”, to match how Albertans actually call them. I am sure many users are momentarily confused when they hear directions to turn onto “xx Highway”.

10

Hwy 16 through Jasper National Park should not be freeway: It’s a two-lane road with a 90 km/h speed limit, and 70 km/h in several long sections.

11

Yes. The only reason I even ponder making it one is because Freeways are all that show up when zoomed all the way out.

Is Hwy 1 like this through Banff NP? It’s been a few years since I was on that road.

12

You’ve pretty much just described Hwy 16 from Hinton through to at least Smithers, BC – though I suspect all the way to Prince Rupert. While it is mostly a 100 km/h speed limit once you get to BC, it isn’t the entire way.

That said, it is still the highest speed limit in the area, and access is limited (not by ramps, but by collector frontage roads). It may still make sense to call it a “Freeway” though it doesn’t meet our usual interpretation of that word.

As an aside, Hwy 1 from Hope, BC to Kamloops, BC and Kamloops, BC to Lake Louise, AB is also undivided two-lane and the “standard” 100 km/h in BC.

Just to through one more wrench into this… what about the un-numbered roads that go between cities (e.g. Wye Rd, Manning Dr, or Ray Gibbons Dr around Edmonton)? Are those “minor highways” or “primary streets”?

13

One other thing… the “A” highways.

E.g. 93A through the Mountain Parks and 16A through Stoney Plain & Spruce Grove.

I’d suggest downgrading these from their non-A counterpart, unless they meet the same standard. Even though they fit in the “Major” routes (i.e. 1-100 number), they are certainly not as major as their counterpart.

14

I think making it a freeway would be going to far. A two-lane undivided road should at maximum be major highway.

I wondered about this too when I saw Ray Gibbon Drive marked as minor highway despite not having a provincial highway number. (But isn’t Manning Drive part of Hwy 15?) But I guess it makes sense to have them as minor highway since they are designed as major commuter routes between a major city and a nearby smaller city and they have speed limit 90 km/h or higher.

15

Ok, to play Devil’s Advocate: why?

If there’s no true “Freeway” within 400km, does it not meet the intent of the Freeway designation?

16

I’d have a hard time calling the 16 through Jasper NP a freeway. It conveys the wrong attitude toward behaviour in the park (caution, to protect the wildlife). It doesn’t match the nature of the road in that there are no ramps at all, and many level crossings for the side roads. It doesn’t match that the speed limit is, as erablian said, 20-40 kph lower than the maximum outside the park.

Manning becomes Hwy 15, so I’d say it should be a Major, as far as it is signposted as the 15 into Edmonton. Same with 97 St. I don’t know how far that is. Ray Gibbon, until it does bypass St. Albert entirely and is twinned, I go back and forth on, but it’s not an inter-city to the extent that, say 633 is between St. Albert and Villeneuve, so I think it’s more a Primary Road than a Minor Highway. Wye is now as Gibbon is to be later, a highway on both ends, so it’s good as a Minor Highway. It’s case by case, but I agree with the recent upgrade of 50 St. to Minor Highway down to Beaumont.

17

Ray Gibbon is 70 km/h max. The rest I’m not sure.

18

Because it’s not in the same class as the 1, 2, 16 outside the parks in several ways:

20-40 km/h lower speed.
1 lane in each direction, undivided vs. 2+ in each direction, divided.
Exclusively level crossings vs mostly / exclusively ramp access.
Much wildlife and stopping on the road.

19

I did that as I was editing Beaumont and realised that 50 St turns into Hwy 814, then is called 50 St through Beaumont, and exits the town as Hwy 814.

As soon as you exit the parks on the West (on Hwy 16), you’re only 100 km/h (with many reduced speed areas); and for the most part 1 lane in each direction, with almost exclusively level crossings, with plenty of wildlife.

You’ve essentially just described Hwy 16 through BC.

And, you’ve also described almost all of Hwy 1 from Hope, BC to Alberta.

20

Then those probably shouldn’t be Freeways. We just don’t have the same kind of freeway system in Canada as exists in the US, or other countries with much denser populations. I know that’s the point you’ve been making, but we can only play loose with the guidelines so much. There’s a lot of Hwy 16 from Edmonton to Edson and then Edson to Hinton that has level crossings with other roads, but there’s no stopping, rest stops are separated from the main roadway, no traffic lights, dual carriageway, and high speeds. So there’s one exception there - level crossings. We discussed these points in PM about the Whitemud, and the Whitemud has all those except the speed. That’s one exception. We’d have to make three or four exceptions for the highways in Jasper NP. That’s too many. There is no road in Jasper NP that warrants Freeway designation. And if some roads outside it don’t either, then they don’t either.