I think part of the problem was the map tile hadn’t updated and was there still showing the cameras from before the last round of editing had taken place.
It’s not uncommon, as at the moment, for there to be temporary SPECS cameras on the A55 in North Wales whilst they do work in 1 of the 3 tunnels. These vary from being active only overnight (see the news report on a load of tickets that had to be cancelled because they forgot) through a few weeks to a few months. Sometimes they arrive a few weeks before they’re on and remain a few weeks after they’re done. I wonder if they don’t have anywhere to store them and so store them where they’re last/next in use!
Given the delays in map edits making it through to the client, what would be the guidelines on when/whether to map these? There are a few requests in at the moment for the current ones…
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Thanks
Martin
Any thoughts, anyone? Similar question applies to temporary speed limits. How long does the limit need to be around for before you change it on the map?
Thanks
As we can only work with what we have then this scenario is always going to cause issues. We must work on the assumption that the tile updates will be working and changes are active every couple of days.
If the cameras are installed but not active you could try using the Dummy camera and then change them to Speed Camera when works period begins. We can’t provide a camera with time restrictions so it would make sense to just map it.
As for speed limits I believe the general consensus means long term works, ie several months, until Waze allows time based speeds then anything shorter than… say a month, is not worth changing.
Thanks for that Chris. Sounds reasonably sensible.
2 supplementary questions then:
- I must be stupid as I can’t see any reference to Average Speed Cameras in the editor. Perhaps I’m not looking in the right place?
- The road in question is L4 so I can’t change the speed limits on the road, even if I managed to put the right sort of camera in.
I know the positions of the cameras as I put them in PocketGPSWorld’s database but I can’t exactly remember the locations of the speed limit changes. I don’t go along that way frequently but have a colleague who endures it every day, who could probably help.
The current works are scheduled to end by the end of March so only a month to go now. Perhaps it’s too late this time? I asked previously about mapping contraflows etc and got the answer of not to bother so perhaps that stuck in my head for roadworks on the A55 in general - will know better next time.
So, to edit or not to edit, and if yes, who at >= L4 will help?
Martin
The editor doesn’t recognise “Average Speed” as a camera type, so we map them as regular Speed Cameras".
The editor does however recognise Average Speed Camera (zone) as an attribute of road segments, so we need to go along all the segments in a zone checking that box.
It has been argued that there is no point in mapping the individual cameras in an average speed zone, since it’s the zone mapping that matters. However if we don’t map the cameras, we get loads of (unconfirmed) cameras and reports from app users, so it’s less hassle in the long run to map them.
Contraflows are a bit different because Waze makes a generous (and necessary) allowance for phone GPS being a bit off, and won’t notice that the user is driving up the wrong carriageway. Might be worth mapping an associated speed limit though if the contraflow is long-term - but map the speed on the carriageway Waze thinks the user is on. 
Post to the UK Editor Requests forum and the next person with some spare time will pick it up. Please be as specific as possible about the requirements, and provide permalinks. Although possibly not this time if there’s only a couple of weeks left.
Ian
Ah - right - I understand better now.
As you say, I’ve probably left it a bit late now but I think I’ll put the cameras in as “speed cameras”, just to stop anyone else reporting them and to flag them up for people who haven’t noticed the big 40 signs!
Next time they’re doing something longer than a month (doubtless won’t be long…) I’ll try and get something ready sooner.
Thanks all for the responses.
Martin
The guidelines from this thread have been published to Wazeopedia - thanks to atrophicshiner for writing it up. Any questions, comments or corrections, please post them here.
The published documents look good, the more on Wazeopedia the better it will be for new (and forgetful older) editors. 
A couple of (minor) comments:
Your link in the previous post goes to Speed limits, the link in the first post on this thread goes to the average speed limits page.
In both, you refer to the WME Colour speed script. Doesn’t the one in toolbox do the same? I must confess to not having used the colour speed one.
Should both Wazopedia entries also mention the WME speedhelper? This is also a useful tool for setting speed limits.
Finally, there appears to be a small typo in the intro on ASZ.
“When wazers are following a navigation route the App will announce when entering an average speed zone and show a progression bar on the side of the screen. Only the announcement of entering the average speed zone occurs when wazers are driving without navigation. The App compute/display an average speed, instead it continues to show the live speed.”
Please keep up the good work.
The script suggestions have been my idea/implementation, Toolbox does highlight speed limits, I happen to suggest WME Color Speeds as it is the one I use, the colours can be chosen by the editor rather than glary greens and sickly yellow/greens. I actual suggest Tim’s WME Color Highlights for AVZs.
As for suggesting others, my thoughts were to only suggest ones initially that help identify items that the WME doesn’t natively show. This kinda prevents new editors loading up on scripts and spam editing without any thought. As said my opinion only.
Whoopsie, fixed
I’m just wondering what the protocol is for these cameras.
I’m looking at the A316. This road starts after the M3 in SW London and goes from 50mph to 40mph to 30mph.
I mapped the cameras here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L2rdGkabIXnuRng_ewX8mL24BYh652fa&usp=sharing
Each pair is between two points with the same speed limit, and they avoid spanning roundabouts and traffic lights.
Between Whitton Road and St Margarets Road there are two roundabouts each @ 400m separation, so they haven’t put cameras in. Around Richmond it’s presumably the same issue - not long enough straights to put in cameras.
Waze shows this as two separate average speed sections, when it’s actually five.
Also I don’t quite understand the ‘Average Speed zone’ versus the actual cameras. The cameras are the start of the average speed zone, so it’s not quite clear why there is an average speed zone starting before the first camera, as very clearly you aren’t in the zone until you’ve passed the camera.
This happens here:
https://www.waze.com/en-GB/editor?env=row&lon=-0.52939&lat=51.40135&zoom=4&segments=121669782
If you are on the M3 from London heading onto the M25, you will not pass even ONE average speed camera (remembering that two are required!), however it tells you ‘entering average speed zone’, even though you aren’t.
Also, if I enter, for example, via this slip road:
https://www.waze.com/en-GB/editor?env=row&lon=-0.38781&lat=51.43157&zoom=4&segments=121660187
Then it tells me ‘entering average speed check zone’.
This is not exactly true, as there is only one camera ahead, so there is no means of averaging my speed.
It seems that conceptually it doesn’t match what’s on the ground in terms of paired cameras. If there is only one camera then there is in effect no zone.
The standards for mapping an average speed zone and its cameras are on page 1 of this thread, including a link to the wiki page.
Generally we work with the tools Waze provide us. ASZ are created by marking a segment as being an ASZ, the cameras can be placed anywhere on the map.
We normally mark the ASZ from the signs announcing the check zone until the end of the zone. I’ll have a look at this length or road to see if this can be improved. I see you’ve linked to a freedom of information request that might help improving this mapping. Just to note the FOI asks for the distances between cameras, and the response provides this, it does not state that these are all independent zones nor that the ASZ is only between 2 cameras. Modern check zones can work across multiple camera positions.
The Waze App does not work out average speeds, it simply announces you are entering a zone and when approaching a camera, if you enter a zone half way through you are still within a check zone.
You can see my recommendations in the UK Editor Request forum.
For ASC zones which can be entered or left via a slip road without passing a pair of cameras, it’s still advantageous for Waze to warn you that you’re within the zone even if you can’t be monitored by it, because you’ll most likely be sharing that section of road with other vehicles which are being monitored due to their having not used/about to use the slip road to avoid the camera pair, and who therefore do need to keep to the reduced limit…
Other than that, my namesake above seems to have covered things quite nicely, so hopefully now you’ve got a better appreciation as to why the app behaves as it does in ASC zones.
Yes I saw that, but I don’t see the sense in this?
"Select all segments within the average speed zone, from first to last camera or sign, "
The zone is from first camera to last camera, not from first sign to last sign. The signage is merely a warning, it doesn’t define the zone, and it isn’t required by law. This is the issue at the start of the ‘M3 smart motorway’.
Hmm. Do you have the documentation on this?
As I understand it there is a Home Office ‘type approval’ which documents exactly how it works.
However these are not published allegedly for reasons of commercial confidence.
I would note however that there must be two separate zones on the westbound section:
https://www.waze.com/editor?env=row&lon=-0.37702&lat=51.43782&zoom=4&segments=293199231
as the speed limit changes from 50mph to 40mph.
There is a FOI here:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/discontinued_a316_average_speed
“Enforcement cannot be done across different speed limits, so enforcement
wouldn’t be possible on this link should the site prove to be
unenforceable.”
So in other words, there are unequivocally different ASZs between the 50mph and 40mph section.
Also I would note that the FOI gives the baseline distances between discrete pairs.
The pairs at 1 and 2, 3 and 4, etc.
Without a measurement from say 2 to 3, it wouldn’t be possible to prosecute.
Pantomime time… “Oh yes it does”
It was added as a highlight layer in a while ago now and I have moved to using Toolbox rather than any other script. It shows a coloured line along each side of the segment (dotted line if unverified) which I have found to be better as doesn’t interfere with WME Colour Highlights.
The highlighter can also highlight average speed zone since I have this set so when another editor changes something on the A13 I can make sure the zone is continuous. Since any gaps will make it into 2 zones.
As for detection over different speeds the A13 ASZ system books you on and off the A13. So the bit in the middle which is 40mph they can tell if you are speeding. Well I am not going to risk it to find out. [emoji4]
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Looks like we both agree then :?
We all have our preferences, I like Color Speeds as you can change the colors, I have a rainbow range with red (20) to indego (70), easy for me to remember. You can also set the offset of the highlight so it doesn’t interfere with other highlighting either.