Things might have changed, (I remember reading a thread some time ago that alluded to developments for restricted vehicle types) but as I understand it:
Despite the fact that one can choose “bus” as your graphical representation in WAZE, this is for effect only and the app does not yet have the option to define what type of vehicle you are driving?
I’ve been sticking to the manual (US, can’t find anything in UK) for bus only segments - i.e. make them private and restrict turns into them. Recently I’ve seen a bus only road mapped as ‘street’ with no turn restriction, but a vehicle-type restriction placed instead. It’s only just been changed so I can’t yet test it in the livemap.
Could the seniors clarify pls? Is there guidance in UK wiki?
What a good question, and just to let you know the country admins are on the ball, we did have a chat about it last night. Can you just let us distil our thoughts and get back to you?
Sure. If you need a test-bed, these are the relevant segments. The southern one is still private, as I originally mapped. The east and west ones have been changed to a vehicle type restriction.
Will be really interested to see the outcome of this. Can I suggest though that there are 2 scenarios that need to be considered (and may or may not end up being treated the same for mapping).
Purpose-built bus only route (i.e. busway)
I think this is what the original post was about - a 24/7 busway, more common found in modern towns or as part of a large housing development.
Partly pedestrianised streets (i.e. bus only restriction)
Many city centres have been restricted to through traffic - and almost pedestrianised, but access is retained for buses, and sometimes taxis … and sometimes only for certain times.
My 2p worth is that it would be great to make more use of the vehicle and time restrictions on segments and turns in these situations - providing the routing obeys them! Being able to connect these segments would give a more accurate representation of junctions - and hopefully ready for map for supporting multiple vehicle types in the client?
PS Have just had some fun with a UR in Southampton by someone using a restricted route. Turns out he was a coach driver! :roll:
I’ve been asked, so here are my thoughts on bus lanes. This isn’t absolute guidance - it’s my current opinion!
Without considering restrictions I would map bus lanes as private segments. I would not restrict turns: private ought to prevent routing and restricted turns will generate MPs when bus/taxi/cycle users break them.
We now have the option to use restricted and it will, eventually (“soon”) work properly. But right now, it will generate MPs again, because anyone going into the bus lane will be breaking a restriction. That’s the downside. The upside is that the MP will be easier to diagnose: it will say a driver has driven on a restricted segment and the restriction will be there to examine. It will particularly help if the description has been filled in.
I think it’s a bit like house numbers. We can set up all sorts of complex restrictions now that will save us a lot of work if/when vehicle types become selectable on the client. But right now it’s a lot of work for little effect.
The main thing is to ensure that, if you use a complex restriction to account for different vehicle types, that it will work as expected, for normal cars, with the current client.
Private is fine when the route is bus & taxi only (or whatever the restriction is) in both directions. However if the route is open to the general public in one direction, and bus & taxi only in the other, then it can’t (or shouldn’t) be made private.
In cases like that, it depends how dedicated you’re feeling. :lol:
Simplest solution: one-way in the direction the public can travel. Ignore MPs from other users.
Less simple: split the carriageway & have it private one way, normal the other. (ie my non-restriction option above)
Least simple: complex restriction in one direction only. (the other option above)
I should note that there are many roads in central London that are one-way for motorised vehicles but cyclists can go the other way. Bermondsey Street in SE1 is a prime example I saw a few days ago. If Waze ever does get a “cyclist” mode, there are probably thousands of segments that will need this type of one-way restriction added. :o
It’s a fallacy to think that one map suits everybody. The Waze map is heavily tailored to four wheels, with junctions simplified to suit the needs of drivers where appropriate.
It would need to be completely redrawn if it were ever to suit cyclists and/or pedestrians, and then would be a lot less clear and uncluttered for motorists.
There are other SatNav apps which are better for walkers and cyclists, Waze is designed for motorists and any attempt to broaden it would simply make it less useful for motorists, without making it really good for anyone else.
Hi guys, we have the same issue here in Australia that you are experiencing. So the question is this, even though Waze wants us to accurately map the roads as they exist, why are we mapping ‘bus only’ routes when no civilian vehicles (and lets say no bicycles as well) would be permitted down the street?
This would be especially prevalent in built up areas where lots of roads cross over each other (including underground routes) which really confuses Waze on which road to lock on to.
Probably the biggest one is Map Problems. Many UK bus routes are not bus-only. Taxis are very frequently allowed to use bus lanes - and a taxi is a 4-wheel passenger vehicle driven by someone who may well be using Waze. Add in motorcyclists (allowed to use many UK bus lanes), cyclists (who shouldn’t use Waze but do), bus passengers (why? but they still do), bus/coach drivers. If we don’t map the bus routes, MPs will appear. Sooner or later an inexperienced editor will look at the aerials, see a road and add it in. By adding it in with the correct restrictions, you can avoid the map problems and you’re ready for . . .
Different vehicle types. Let’s face it, there’s a list of different vehicle types in the restrictions box. I don’t imagine Waze stuck those vehicle types in there for fun. Sooner or later (although to Waze, soon means later :lol: ) there are going to be different vehicle modes. When that happens, would you rather start a mad rush to get them all added, or sit back and say “we did all that over the last year - we’re ready”.
I did pick a bad example earlier in the thread (as ditchi56 pointed out). Cyclists are very different from motorised vehicles and (at least in London) will drive along pavements, through red lights, the wrong way down 1-way streets without a contraflow bicycle permission and down stairways. The only mode suitable for cyclists one that throws out all their routing data. But the other vehicle types are coming…
The problem we had in Australia was the possibility that a destination pin from Google will see the Busway (set as Private Rd) as the nearest routable segment. It will then route a user onto the Busway to get to their destination (regardless of the vehicle restrictions, which had disallowed Private vehicles on this particular segment).
Here in Brisbane our busways aren’t just a street or two, they are being built to span many suburbs and can leave a user in completely the wrong location before they realise where they are being routed (luckily for me I saw the Busway label in the purple bubble with plenty of time to spare).
Locally we are leaning towards removing the busways but I do agree that passengers and drivers of buses will post reports (which I think was the reason we mapped them in the first place).
Setting as Private Rd will sort most problems yes, however the Google destination pin was the issue here.
We had a similar problem recently - a long busway with no public access an a destination on it. For that one (which was a significant length) we disconnected it from other roads and locked it - we’ll just have to live with occasional MPs.
Also, now we have confirmation that marking them “not identified” will suppress future MPs, that will help.
Mapped bus lanes also serve as landmarks. A driver may see a physical (but restricted) road which isn’t on the map, and get confused or think it’s missing.
Just found a roundabout with a pedestrian boardwalk attached (now private as is access only), routing over it counted the exit, so waze counts all exits.
Not sure about a restricted road though, What about a restricted turn, does waze then discount the exit?
A restricted road “should” act as a private road so should count, I guess. Good question about the restricted turn, I’m going for Waze ignoring the status of any turns and just looking at the direction of the road but I’m only about 55% confident of that!
