Poimenovanje istoimenskih naselij in oddaljenih zaselkov

Map Editors Community Slovenia [Slovenscina] WAZE MAP EDITOR (WME)
1

Vsi vemo, da imamo naselja z istim imenom v različnih občinah in jih nekako moramo ločiti med seboj. Sedaj so v Wazu poimenovani nekoliko neurejeno, včasih je v oklepaju ime občine, včasih ime bližnjega večjega naselja, včasih je celo dodano k imenu “pri [bližnjem večjem naselju]”, kot je npr. “Krnica pri Črnem Kalu”, čeprav to ni uradno ime naselja.

Predlagam naslednjo rešitev poimenovanja istoimenskih naselij, ki se pojavlja tudi v slovenski Wikipediji.

Najprej preverimo uradno ime naselja na tem naslovu. Če je ime iz samo ene besede, se občino doda za vejico. Primer naselja Krnica bi zgledal takole:

  • Krnica, Gorje
  • Krnica, Koper
  • Krnica, Luče

Nobeno od istoimenskih naselij naj ne bo brez občine zraven. Tako bo lažje najdi pravo naselje z iskalnikom.

Na Obali sem imel dva primera naselij, ki imata več zaselkov, ki so ločena od glavnega naselja tudi nekaj kilometrov, to sta Sv. Anton in Tinjan. Za potrebe Waza in navigacije se mi zdi nesmiselno označiti vse oddaljene zaselke kot isto naselje, zato bi jih razdelil (oz. sem to že storil). Kar je strnjeno, pustim kot glavno naselje, oddaljene zaselke pa poimenujem kot novo naselje. Torej, zaselek Potok (ki ima na cesti celo svojo tablo kot ime naselja, čeprav ni uradno naselje), ki je del Sv. Antona, sem poimenoval “Potok (Sv. Anton)”. Oklepaj označuje, da je to naselje v resnici zaselek naselja v oklepaju.

Povzetek:

Istoimenska naselja –> ImeNaselja, Občina
Oddaljeni zaselki –> ImeZaselka (ImeNaselja)

Kaj menite? Podpirate predloga?

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Hvala Alan. Načeloma se strinjam. Moja opažanja in predlogi so naslednji:

  1. V praksi moramo ime naselja čim bolj približati povprečnemu uporabniku, ki ne bo nikoli bral forumov in pravil, ampak samo naložil aplikacijo in želel priti na cilj.
  2. Število občin v Sloveniji je umetno napihnjeno in dolgoročno nevzdržno. To pomeni, da tako poimenovanje ne bo nujno dolgoročno vzdržno. Marsikdo od povprečnih uporabnikov tudi nima pojma, v kateri občini se trenutno :lol: nahaja naselje. Vedo pa, ali je tak kraj (na primer Ponikve) na Dolenjskem ali na Celjskem, ali na Gorenskem. Vsaj pri meni je tako.
  3. Dodatno drobljenje že tako razdrobljenih krajev se mi ne zdi smiselno.

:arrow: Moj predlog je, da domačini iz širše regije nekako najbolje vedo, kje je kaj in kako je prav. Ostali lahko bolj ali manj ugibamo ali pa se zatečemo po pomoč širšemu regijskemu poimenovanju ali po pomoč večjemu mestu v okolici. Poimenovanja v uradnih registrih so tudi velikokrat toga in neuporabna za povprečnega uporabnika.Vsa dodatna imena k edino pravemu imenu, so seveda nepravilna in služijo samo za pomoč. Sam sem dosedaj poskušal zlesti v kožo povprečnega laičnega uporabnika, ki nima pojma o imenih stotin slovenskih občin ampak želi vseeno na cilj. Ime se da seveda vedno potem naknadno popraviti.

Od včeraj dalje, so imena naselij zaklenjena na level 4 s strani Waze. To pomeni, da smo v Sloveniji sedaj samo trije + naš Draško.

Na kratko: ne bi kompliciral, če pa kdo od nas treh kakšno poimenovanje smatra za ustreznejše, ga bomo pač spremenili. In v tem primeru kar lock 4 na celo tako poimenoivano področje, da bomo ostali vedeli, da je bilo nekaj spremenjeno na bolje.

lp G.

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Tudi jaz se strinjam s tvojimi opažanji. Mora biti preprosto in uporabno, brez kompliciranja, a žal je problem, da istoimenskemu naselju moraš dodati nekaj umetnega zraven, sicer ga ne moreš shraniti, ker že obstaja drugje. In že ta dodatek pri imenu je pač lahko že za marsikoga odveč.

No, če smo samo 3+1 zdaj, potem je presoja o načinu poimenovanja naselja verjetno prepuščeno vsakemu uredniku posebej? Jaz bi poimenoval nekaj naselij na mojem koncu na moj način, pa da vidimo, kako se obnese.

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:sunglasses: go for it, Alan!

Pa kakšen link pošlji, da si pogledamo, kako ti gre. Bom pogledal, ko se vrnem po 20.8., morda se pridružim.

lp G.

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Hello!

I have a solution to resolve the name duplications, but I need a couple of days necessary to complete it. I made a table has all settlements of Slovenia were collected, categorized by county and each municipality, but it needs to be updated. When I finished, share it here with you and explain what it contains.

Regards,
Gomez (draskovicsl)

Translated by Google: (and quickly edited by gregetz :mrgreen: )

Pozdravljeni! 

Imam rešitev za reševanje imenskih podvajanj, ampak rabim nekaj dni, potrebnih za njihovo izvedbo. Naredil sem tabelo, ki vsebuje vsa naselja v Sloveniji. Ta so bila zbrana, razvrščena glede na ime naselja in to za vsako občino. Tabelo je treba posodobiti. Ko bom končal, jo bom delil tukaj z vami in pojasnil njeno vsebino. 

S spoštovanjem, 
Gomez (draskovicsl)
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Hi Gomez, you know I have seen your precious spreadsheet table with all those names and categorizations. Sure these are VERY useful and helpful. Congrats! You may want to share that updated version with us. Cool.

My objection in my previous post it was, the number of communes per 100km2 in Slovenia is probably the highest in Europe and as such unsustainable. Many of them, especially the smallest ones, are already bankrupted due to lack of income. The number will also very likely be lowered in the future. The name of commune/county does not necessary always help the end users. My suggestion was to do in a way to please most end users, who actually don’t care about the commune name and, in many case don’t know it - including myself.

Names of major towns/cities or even regions, in many instances do a much better job. My idea was, for every editor rank 4 cones and above (the names of the cities have been locked by Waze in Slovenia to level 4) to decide himself which (second) name he/she thinks, fits that very local name best. In your case, you are more than welcomed, to use the way you have proposed. It is only four of us in Slovenia with editing rank 4+ (including you, my friend) so this should not be to difficult.

Regards,

G.

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Hey!

I thought it was finished in a few days, but I had a few weeks, it was actually really big job.

I finished a table that includes all municipalities in Slovenia, about counties, including those collected in each municipality (Občina).

The source are the Slovenian Wikipedia, something from before (but I can not remember), and checked all the http://www.stat.si/KrajevnaImena/ web page.

All villages have a unique name, and I think all towns are in this table. Duplicate villages with the name of the municipality (like in the Slovenian Wiki), the names are case sensitive, there are no abbreviation (like Sv. adn others).

The original purpose of the table, that the work I have done and checks can be monitored, but feel free to use it in order to make the settlement names.

My suggestion is to follow this naming concept, because it is necessary in the editor and the client is the unique name of the villages. If these villages later terminated and / or merge, you can easly find and modifiy them. (On streetnames you can leave the single name)

In Pomurska I found same town with upper/lower case error, but this is just a fly in the ointment, but I cannot correct them (in city names), maybe once I send to the HQ.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uGHtO0Cikj7_J2mdl6pQ8qQw0SBr27YK42sRTYEeHzw/edit?usp=sharing

I triple checked everything, but it may contain some error, if you see something wrong, let me know immediately and I correct it.

Regards,
Gomez (draskovicsl)

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Great job, Gomez, surely very useful and helpful. Your work is greatly appreciated.

City names have been locked up by Waze HQ to level 4. You got 5 cones - basically, you should be able to correct it.

Else - send me a PM with the name/or permalink and I will correct it.

Regards, G.

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Thank you. I’m glad you like it.

A little misunderstood about the city names.

Example:
The real name: Dolgovaške Gorice
City name in waze: Dolgovaške gorice
link: https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lon=16.46840&lat=46.56088&layers=2031&zoom=4

I can change the city name (for exaple to “Dolgovaške Gorice, Lendava”), but when I modify only capital ones, the original (wrong capital) name come back after save. Same happens when I change from “Dolgovaške gorice” to “Dolgovaške Gorice, Lendava” then change from “Dolgovaške Gorice, Lendava” to “Dolgovaške Gorice”.

I tried rename, wait some days, rename again, but not helped.

I know it’s not a big problem, only fly in the ointment, later be notified to the HQ, but it’s not a priority right now.

Regards,
Gomez

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I noticed the same issue. It’s not a big problem but it bugs me! :slight_smile: Hope it will be resolved some time in the future.

And great job with the names! Guess I will have to rename Sv. Anton back to Sveti Anton. :slight_smile:

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Indeed. Clearly a bug. Will talk to guys later today.

Regards, G.

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Hi Gomez,
I’ve been ‘lazy’ for some time now (read: busy with other things…), so I didn’t see this post until today.
I must say I’m impressed with Your work. :o :ugeek:
Are You sure You’re Hungarian? :? :smiley:

Anyway, I started using this piece of art today, and I have found a minor ‘missplacement’. You have placed ‘Občina Radeče’ to Obalno-kraška region, but it should be in Zasavska or Spodnjeposavska - it’s right in the middle of those. I guess Zasavska would be better.

Again, thanks for all Your superb work in Slovene Waze community :!: :mrgreen:

13

Hello!

You are absolutely right, actually the Občina Radeče belongs to the Spodnjeposavska region, according to the wikipedia :slight_smile:

http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posavska_regija#Ob.C4.8Dine_v_statisti.C4.8Dni_regiji

The wikipedia was used for source and check my work, but it escaped my attention, thank you indicated. There would certainly be even greater / less errors you find, let me know and I will fix it :slight_smile:

I am glad that you find it helpful, there was a lot of work really, if only because I’m really Hungarian :wink:

I hope to continue to provide assistance for you.

Redards, Gomez