Weird routing around stretches of Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn,

Map Editors Community United States New York
1

Got two URs related to this, and I confirmed that Waze really want to route around this strip sometimes:

https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=16&lat=40.58649&lon=-73.96417&from_lat=40.58943&from_lon=-73.96535&to_lat=40.58322&to_lon=-73.96631

It needlessly takes the first right, and immediately enters the service road. A few blocks south, it takes a left, and has to pass through the intersection with the main road it just left. Happens that the left is illegal, so I fixed the missing turn restriction, which would have prevented it. I Until the tiles are updated, you can still see the odd routing.

Then this one a few block further north. Two hours ago, it was similarly leaving the main road for the service lane, then returning to the main road one block further on. Now it is not doing that, no idea what changed in a couple of hours, though it could be a time of day road speed thing. Maybe these segments need road speed data reset?

https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=16&lat=40.59441&lon=-73.96595&from_lat=40.59636&from_lon=-73.96515&to_lat=40.59271&to_lon=-73.96475

2

Yup, on the second one if you set the time to 11:30am, it routes around but in the PM, it stops doing that. Probably still needs a reset, it is almost never appropriate to shift to the service lanes, I know the traffic patterns in the area, and it will definitely slow you down with lights, narrow streets, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars parking/leaving parking spaces. It would be rare to save even a few seconds, and most often, even if traffic is realy backed up on the main road, the service lanes will still be slower.

3

If you want to look at these segments in WME, this is the route it wants to take BUT ONLY AT CERTAIN TIMES OF DAY:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-73.96094&lat=40.59179&zoom=3&layers=TBFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTTTTTTTT&segments=33547320,63520770,63520781,63520782,33555761,33559317,63521007,69378903,61290819,61290820,61290818,61290817,61284600,61284601,63520947,63520948,63520946,61284599,61284578,33557254,64764082,64764081&env=usa

(This is actually a chimera of two different problem reports, so I can’t be certain that both detours are at the same time of day.)

4

Ocean Pkwy has dual roadways in the same direction separated by some physical barrier, doesn’t it? Like a main inner roadway and maybe an outer service road?

If this is the case, Waze often can’t tell which of the 2 roadways you’re on because they’re too close together for the commercial GPS technology your smartphone uses. Because of this, Waze tries to guess, often incorrectly, which roadway you’re in and ends up completely smudging the speed data for that road. The result is often complete chaos navigating down these roads, where it might frequently tell you to cross over because it thinks the other roadway may be a second (or less) faster, even though that information has limited accuracy. This kind of thing happens on the Garden State Pkwy and Turnpike in Jersey all the time.

If Ocean Pkwy was more of a highway type setup, I’d almost explore using ramps for that outer roadway, since its use is only appropriate if your destination is on that block or you’re turning right at the next block, but with destination addresses along those outer roads, I’m not sure how appropriate the ramp type would be there…

The Private Road type will prevent any traffic whose destination is not on that particular block, but it may also incorrectly prevent right-turning traffic, so I don’t know about using Private Road either…

5

I don’t think ramp road type should be used there, neither private road type.
I’m thinking a solution perhaps more in the terms of different elevations but, I haven’t tested to confirm if that would work.

6

Private would be an interesting idea, since generally, the service roads are used only for access to the block they are on. There are a few exceptions where a cross street reaches the service road, and terminates there (i.e., the service/main road island is not interrupted.

But I agree with you, that introduces as many problems as it solves.

Another problem (even today) will be addresses on the street. The houses need to snap to the service road. But the service road currently has a different name, even though to the DOT, they are all just “Ocean Parkway.” If Waze ever starts using its own address database, we’ll probably have to change the service roads to all be just Ocean Parkway.

Why would named ramps be a problem? Because the client UI will not display properly?

7

Because ramp road types have specific purpose. Take a look here:

After consulting, I’m leaning towards private road.

8

Can right turns be made from the inner road? If so, maybe we should just make that service roadway a private road.

If we add an alternate name to the outer roadways where the street name is just Ocean Pkwy, Waze would be able to find and correctly locate the addresses along Ocean Pkwy regardless of what we have to put in the Primary Name to show on the client map.

9

I agree. Out all the options we have, I think primary is the best choice. I would probably set those area with the most UR’s and see if it helps.

10

I knew about the ramp specifics, but one thing I’ve picked up form Waze editing is that we’re often shoehorning a round peg into a square hole no matter what we do. The constraints of “standards” for road types should be followed, sure, but if the result is we’re boxed into doing something that causes the driver to experience bad instructions, weird displays, etc., then we should consider exceptions. I would never do an exception like this on my own, but it pays to raise the issue and build consensus.

I imagine that’s what you did, of course :slight_smile:

The reason I like ramps for this is twofold:

  1. they don’t display names on the map. The current display shows “Ocean Parkway Outer Road” on my phone more prominently than simply displaying “Ocean Parkway,” which is, I think, confusing and annoying to end users. Private roads still display names, AFAIK.

  2. Waze WILL NOT ROUTE on private roads if it can avoid it. If I enter an Ocean Parkway address today, the pin is close to the service road, s Waze will route to it. If we change these to private roads, the algorithm may prefer the main road or the cross street. This seems risky. I guess we could make a test setup on a derelict commercial strip of some similarly set up road. I can’t think of any offhand, though there may be a block somewhere on Foster Ave, Kings Highway, or Grand Concourse. However, I KNOWN that ramps won’t have this problem.

11

OK. Let’s do this. For the sake of discovery…

Set one short stretch with ramp road type and the other side with private. I’ll lock them @rank 6 to prevent any changes to them. We’ll run test for say…couple of weeks.

We’ll see what we find.

12

OK. I’m first going to look around for a similar road that’s not quite as strategic. If I find one tonight, I’ll let you know. Otherwise, we’ll do Ocean Parkway.

13

How about this entire section of Foster Ave? https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat=40.64292&lon=-73.91454&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTFTTTTTTTT

I’ve set the entire westbound portion to ramp, and the entire eastbound to private. I only have level 2, so I locked it to that. Feel free to bump it up if you like.

Upsides: Not as busy as OP, less likely to get people upset when they get weird routes.

Dwonsides: There are some other funky buts of geometry here that could confuse the issue, but probably not enough to affect address pinning or client display for what we’re testing. Also, if we wanted to generate URs to help discover problems, we’re less likely to receive them. But we can always repeat the test on a few blocks of OP if Foster proves successful.

14

Locked @ rank 6…

15

Cool.

A few Google Map Maker locations on either side of the testbed:

NORTH SIDE

Bayridge Brewery, Beer Distributor, 19 South Market Street, Brooklyn, NY 11236
Should pin to S Market St

Brooklyn Terminal Market Association
I just moved its pin to the Foster Ave side of the building. It published, but it doesn’t show yet at the new location.

SOUTH SIDE

A-Line Electric Supply Inc, 8704 Foster Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11236, United States
RIght on Foster Ave Outer Road, and closer to E 87 St than to regular Foster Ave. However, while Google finds this search term, Waze does not, and 8704 address is centered on building.

Ditto for Rojo Collision Center at 8720, other end of same block

And for the Ocean Parkway testing…

EAST SIDE

2121 Ocean Parkway
Middle of the block, so not near a cross street, and pin is right near curb for private road. Routing currently registers to the service road, and we’ll see where it registers after tile updates. We’ll hope it goes to the private road (proximate), not the main road (being public).

2101 OP
At corner, and pin is closest to Ave U, then service road… so should route badly now and after tile updates.

1993 OP
Second from corner. Closest to service (1m), then Ave T (about 19m) then main road (about 25m).

WEST SIDE

2020 OP
Closest to service road (1m) then main road (about 25m) then Ave T (about 50m)

2018 OP really the same house, but Google pins it toward the back instead of the curb. 30m form service road, 50m form main rd, 55m from Ave T (that’s not much a delta form the main road).

2022 OP is 30m to service rd, 50m to main, 65 to Ave T

16

As predicted 2121 Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11223 before update routes to service road
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=17&lat=40.60049&lon=-73.96494&from_lat=40.60121&from_lon=-73.95549&to_lat=40.5973&to_lon=-73.96476
After 0.55 miles, turn left Ocean Pkwy
After 0.31 miles, turn left Ave V
After 78.74 feet, turn left Ocean Pkwy Outer Road
After 547.90 feet Approach destination

2101 also as predicted gets it wrong even today, due to the pin proximity to cross street
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=17&lat=40.59939&lon=-73.96541&from_lat=40.60018&from_lon=-73.96517&to_lat=40.59775&to_lon=-73.96484
After 206.69 feet, turn left Ocean Pkwy
After 830.05 feet, turn left Ave U
After 173.88 feet Approach destination

1993 does route to service road, and will be a good test of private street routing after tile update
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=17&lat=40.59935&lon=-73.96531&from_lat=40.59794&from_lon=-73.9647&to_lat=40.60028&to_lon=-73.96564
After 134.51 feet, turn right Ocean Pkwy Outer Road
After 889.11 feet Approach destination

2020 also as predicted to service road
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=17&lat=40.59793&lon=-73.96471&from_lat=40.59794&from_lon=-73.9647&to_lat=40.59953&to_lon=-73.96611
After 216.54 feet, turn right Ocean Pkwy
After 830.05 feet, turn left Ave T
After 78.74 feet, turn left Ocean Pkwy Outer Road
After 190.29 feet Approach destination

2018 does a good job now
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=15&lat=40.59758&lon=-73.96492&from_lat=40.59794&from_lon=-73.9647&to_lat=40.59954&to_lon=-73.96644
After 216.54 feet, turn right Ocean Pkwy
After 830.05 feet, turn left Ave T
After 78.74 feet, turn left Ocean Pkwy Outer Road
After 167.32 feet Approach destination

2022 also routes to service road now, and will hopefully route to ramp instead of OP main road after update
https://www.waze.com/livemap?zoom=15&lat=40.59862&lon=-73.96629&from_lat=40.59794&from_lon=-73.9647&to_lat=40.59945&to_lon=-73.96642
After 216.54 feet, turn right Ocean Pkwy
After 830.05 feet, turn left Ave T
After 78.74 feet, turn left Ocean Pkwy Outer Road
After 196.85 feet Approach destination

Will tediously try this again in a few days.

17

Very through :slight_smile:

Great job.

18

I found a couple of other weird short route-arounds, not involving service roads. See URs at

Ave O / 65th: [color=#FF0040]https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat=40.64292&lon=-73.91454&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTFTTTTTTTT#[/color]
Woops! That should have been: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat=40.61109&lon=-73.97704&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTTTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

and

333 Flatbush Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11217

The Flatbush Ave one, I have no idea. I marked it with red unnamed segments because I thought txemt was going to take a look at it, but he’s busy. It is avoiding the FASTER street in this case.

I checked the speed data (on the other one and it COULD be that 65th street looks like a more attractive strip. But it isn’t that much better, it is longer, and will force the driver to wait for turns and stop signs, so it is bogus.

19

And another, New Utrecht / Ft Hamilton. Pattern seems to be a small triangle where three streets almost come together. Waze just likes angles.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat=40.64092&lon=-73.99446&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Don’t see any speed data to write home about. All 8-15mph in each direction. If I understand the notation correctly, A>B is tagged as forward speed, and B>A is reverse speed. In that case, it avoided a single straight 25m 10mph segment in favor of two turns onto 33m of 10mph and 26m of 11mph. Makes no sense. The first turn alone is onto a longer segment of the same speed.

20

Woops! Corrected the Ave O/65th St link form two posts above: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat=40.61109&lon=-73.97704&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTTTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTT