New in that I couldn’t see it in the wiki
The answer is yes they are on Managed Motorways. They are either on the left side of the road or over the lanes of the motorway. This is I have read somewhere they are also average cameras so if you get to Birmingham 15mins early because you drove all the way at 90mph. You may get a ticket. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]
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AFAIK, the camera you’ve pictured is the HADECS 3, though there are a few different pics of them around.
As hublander says, they’re for managed motorways and supposedly can cover all 3 lanes. There’s rumours that they’ll be set to work even when the speed limits aren’t imposed if you’re doing over 70. Don’t know how true that is. Also don’t know about them being used as average speed cams.
There’s been one S/B on the M1 J8 for a while on the same gantry as other gantry lane cameras. There’s a reasonably new one between J12 and J13 northbound, not on an existing gantry with cameras. It is marked on Waze though.
A lot of the camera gantries between J6A and J13 have had trays fitted on the side, but they’re still empty at time of posting.
The new average speed cameras already in Luton and Dunstable (and elsewhere) are the new SICORE ones; 2 lanes covered, bi-directional, and works over several different cameras, i.e. they don’t need to work in pairs.
http://www.siemens.co.uk/traffic/en/index/productssolutionsservices/sicore_anpr.htm
It’s in the right position to be a HADECS3, but it doesn’t look quite the same as the ones that’ve been growing in number around the M25 - here we get two relatively chunky looking boxes on each shelf as opposed to the one rather wide and low-profile one pictured here.
If it is a HADECS3, then as PFF says they cover all the lanes in the vicinity of the gantry from that single installation, and yes it’s strongly rumoured that (on the M25 at least) they’ll be active at all times, although there’s some debate over a) whether this is true and if so then b) just what the trigger threshold would be.
I believe that is a HADECS3 camera, one way to tell if it’s really there is with a GPS based camera spotter. Apparently the standard radar snoopers don’t detect them.
It’s not so much a rumor that they’re active at all times, they have no film in them and are capable of recording your speed, license plate and date/time regardless. Meaning there is no limit to how many people they can catch and how long they can operate for.
The gantry cameras still operate on a film system as they’re standard Gatso cameras on the back of the gantry and so these may or may not be “active” depending on if it has film or not.
In terms of triggering the HADECS3’s though, they record average speed between 2 cameras (dubbed as a zone). If your average speed between 2 cameras is higher than the speed limit you’ll more than likely end up with a speeding fine. They were first installed in 2014, but weren’t immediately switched on. I would suspect the ones that have been there for a while are now all active.
This is all information gathered by research, and by the fact my dad got nabbed by one of these on the M25 despite the gantry signs being switched off (no variable limit in place). He assumed they didn’t operate unless a speed limit was in place.
My point being I’m not a cop, nor do I make speed cameras so. don’t assume that’s all fact. But most of the research came up with the same answers.
Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. ![]()
Only problem with the Average Speed ability is the fact they don’t say how big the Average Speed Zones are or when they start and end.
So you have to assume that they could in theory pass a HADECS3 Camera on the M25 and they know how far it is to a Camera on the M1. If your registration plate is seen in 2 places and you could have only done over say 80 Mph to get between the 2 places then in theory they can send you a ticket.
Even my Tomtom with it’s Average Speed ability can’t help me there. I like the fact as soon as I go into an Average Zone my Tomtom starts giving me my Average speed. This is good since I can then get as close to speed limit and overtake people at 1Mph ![]()
Just wish we could put Average speed zones in Waze?
I would assume that it’s between 2 cameras that are close by. Tracking you over larger distances will produce massive inaccuracies. If it was as large as you said it was, how would you notify the driver where they were caught speeding? “oh sir, you were caught doing 83mph somewhere between the M25 and the M1” would probably lead to “well where was I caught speeding exactly? What speed limit did I break?” and thus lots of court appeals, which are expensive. If you bring that distance right down to say, a 3 junction gap on the M25, people are less likely to complain the ticket is inaccurate.
That’s just me thinking logically though, I could be completely wrong ![]()
I agree Average speed zones in Waze would be nice. But generally speaking if you go by what Waze records your speed as you should be ok. As GPS speeds are sort of done based on an average anyway.
Given the comments on the manufacturer site (which also happens to include a nice photo of the dual-box setup I mentioned above), combined with other information I’ve seen regarding HADECS3, I’d be very surprised if they’re operating in an average speed capacity. If nothing else, the way in which the cameras actually operate (taking still photos with the assistance of a flash strobe unit) is textbook behaviour for a standalone fixed location speed camera compared with the behaviour of cameras acting in concert as part of an average speed detection zone. Also, average speed cameras and variable speed limits aren’t the best of friends…
Surely they must be digital camera’s. I can’t imagine they would put camera’s that need film changing at regular intervals in an inaccessible location above a motorway. It would require lane closures and work at height just to change the film, the risk assessment and associated paperwork would be horrendous. :shock:
I think you’ll find that the gantries with speed cameras have a ladder and access catwalk like this one.
I, too, was under the impression that they had mostly been converted to digital photography. However some online sources suggest that this is not true for all cameras. Certainly “wet” film has an advantage over digital photography in varying light levels.
I do not think these are average speed.
These are speed at that time.
I have seen them flash, so doubt they operate the same was as the yellow average speed cameras on roadworks.
Anyway, whatever happened to them all having to be yellow?
There is something similar to this being installed on the M62 (E) just before the M621 exit.